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PHA visitation

solomon1979

Registered User
So if i were to visit a PHA lodge. Would I be be able to? I am a "mainstream" MM. I have heard that some PH lodges don't or even forbid visitation to and from there lodge. Is this true? Im curious to know how and why this started.


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widows son

Premium Member
Your GL and the PHA would have to first recognize each other and have visitation rights between them for you to visit.
 

bro jimmie

Registered User
Mainstream MM

You refer to yourself as a Mainstream MM.
WOW So what does that make me A PHA a minor Mason? I know you did mean to offend after all you are interested in visiting a PHA lodge. Please do so.
 

bro jimmie

Registered User
Visit

Sorry I did not mean to be negative in anyway. I think that it is important that MM visit the different branches the masonic order. You are doing what all master masons should be doing.
Enjoy your visit my Brothers Solomon
 

solomon1979

Registered User
Im in no way referring to my self as mainstream. Thats what I hear brothers call it. I



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dfreybur

Premium Member
First you need to look up if your GL recognizes the PHA GL in question. If they can do you can present yourself for visitation. It's technically up to them to look up if that recognition is mutual. That leads to a second step that's nice if you have the data ...

When I looked up the list in California they supplied me a list of PHA GLs that had granted mutual recognition and a list of PHA GLs that had not yet responded to. If you have a resource like that it is very nice to use it as it makes their job much easier. If you know they aren't allowed to let you in don't go. But not all GLs publish lists with that extra bit of data. So you go and trust in the spirit of the law ...

As to Brother Jimmie I've long since objected to the term mainstream. Sometimes I use the never official "George Washington GL" that every US Mason understands but is a dodge. Sometimes I use the initials of a specific GL like GLofTX and MHPHAGLofTX.

If I recall correctly you're moving to Florida? They don't have recognition.
 

perryel

Registered User
I'm not aware of MWPHGL witholding recognition from a corresponding GL in any state. That being the case, you would be welcomed as a Brother at any PHA Lodge.
 

solomon1979

Registered User
What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry. I have looked at calenders of PHA lodges and they are busy with work and functions. Other lodges are blank or have a few things going on. Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them. If there was intervisitation and national recognition by all state GLS'. We would see more of the benefits of the principals,tenets and virtues of our brotherhood.


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Bro. Stewart P.M.

Lead Moderator Emeritus
Staff Member
What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry. I have looked at calenders of PHA lodges and they are busy with work and functions. Other lodges are blank or have a few things going on. Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them. If there was intervisitation and national recognition by all state GLS'. We would see more of the benefits of the principals,tenets and virtues of our brotherhood.


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The MWPHGLoTX & the GLoTX do recognize each other, there is no visitation currently though. Both consider themselves "regular" and not clandestine as several other rogue GL's in the State that decided that they wanted to start their own "deal". In the case of TX, there are a lot of PHA lodges that are not recognized because they can not directly tie their beginnings back to Europe.
 

perryel

Registered User
This is the first I have heard of a PHA Lodge that cannot trace its lineage to the Premiere Lodge of England. The type of Lodge you describe, based on my experience, would represent an anomaly in PHA Freemasonry.
 

widows son

Premium Member
"This is the first I have heard of a PHA Lodge that cannot trace its lineage to the Premiere Lodge of England. The type of Lodge you describe, based on my experience, would represent an anomaly in PHA Freemasonry."

• If I could expand on this question and ask, is this because some PHA GL came from the NGL?
 

Jericho2013

Premium Member
You could always go by and have dinner with them if they will have you even if you aren't allowed to sit in lodge. Taking steps for fellowship among brothers is a good first step.


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solomon1979

Registered User
There is a irregular clandestine lodge close to town and few others in surrounding areas. They all Claim to be PHA but they are not. Some tried to visit our lodge and were often tried always denied and ready to be denied again. There is one in florida to and its on facebook. Its called the regular gl of florida. Its a bunk lodge. Also a few in st louis. I know this because we have guys that come for healing or go through initiation again. Other lodges do to.


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dj9684

Registered User
In order for mainstream masons and PHA mason to meet there has to be a mutual recognition between the two Grandlodges. I am a PHA mason in Georgia ( not a mutual recognition state); we can trace our lineage to UGLE because of African Lodge#459 in Boston just like any other PHA Grandlodge. However, there are clandestine lodges operating in the name of Prince Hall and others can not tell the difference. This irregular Masonic affiliation is known as P.H.O ( Prince Hall Origin). They operate under a National Grandlodge that preside over the Grandlodges in each state, which goes against one of the land marks in freemasonry.

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Scorpionlawz

Registered User
So if i were to visit a PHA lodge. Would I be be able to? I am a "mainstream" MM. I have heard that some PH lodges don't or even forbid visitation to and from there lodge. Is this true? Im curious to know how and why this started.


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I live in MA, while making an attempt to visit a PHA Lodge, I was told not to show up. I had to call the secretary and let the WM know when I was coming a few weeks in advance. I know this does not represent PH Masonry, but even with full recognition between our grand Lodges, there is still a spirit of suspicion which should not be.
As an African American member of the GL of MA, I thoroughly enjoy visiting with PH brothers. I'm always learning new things.
Go visit, broaden your horizons and meet some great men.


Bro. Junior A. Knight
Chicopee Lodge
GL Massachusetts AF&AM
 

Aeelorty

Registered User
I have gone to a joint table lodge that was great and an EA degree no problems with either. During the degree we had a DDGM and PM with us who were called to be seated in the East.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
What is strange is PHA is recognized by the UGLE. Its up to state lodges that also have recognition by UGLE to have visitation but they don't. In Illinois they do. If Florida doesn't? That is ridiculous. It seems that defeats the universal brotherhood purpose of masonry.

http://bessel.org/masrec/phamap.htm

There's a map of states that do and don't have PHA recognition. Florida is not on the list and yes I and many others agree that's ridiculous. As Illinois has blanket recognition you can visit a PHA lodge in any of the states marked blue on that map. As Illinois has blanket recognition I have not found any list of PHA jurisdictions that return recognition so it's up to them to figure out if they can let you in for any of the states marked blue on the map.

http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges

That's the UGLE list for recognition. Select North America and you'll see which PHA jurisdictions they recognize. The lists aren't quite the same as the map above. I think they haven't caught up yet and are likely to soon.

Maybe PHA has something more to offer and all other lodges should pick up on those ideas and promote them.

True for any active lodge that's doing many degrees.
 

dj9684

Registered User
In Georgia, there is no mutual recognition. However, my lodge (exodus lodge #593 PHA) and Gate City lodge #2 had a joint community service event with habitat for humanity in 2010. The first time in Georgia's history that a PHA lodge and a Mainstream Lodge engage in some form of activity together. Gate City caught a lot of flack years ago for initiating a Black man into the lodge and now he is currently the WM their now. I heard that other lodges in Georgia tried to have Gate City labeled as clandestine and attempted removed them from the Georgia's jurisdiction but failed. Its sad to say the reason that PHA is not fully recognized in the U.S. is because of race. Majority of the states that are not recognized are southern states.

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solomon1979

Registered User
Thats the type of stories of perseverance we need to hear. This color/race issue has got to stop. Hopefully enough people have the cojones to come together to make changes and move forward out of stagnation.


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