The Brain with David Eagleman

[pointwithinacircle2]

There was nothing on TV tonight that I wanted to watch. So I was flipping around the channels and I hear a guy talking about how the people make decisions. This topic interests me so I stop and listen. It turns out that I am on PBS watching The Brain with David Eagleman. This episode (season 1, episode 4) discussed some of the influences that affect how human beings make decisions. They discussed many factors that I was totally unaware of that help create create the decisions that we think of as "ours".

We all tend to think of our "self" as a thing which we control. This show was a fascinating look into the components that "self" and the influences that exert control over it. I put this thread in the Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality category because it seems to me that this is the proper forum for exploring who we are and what is real. This show taught me some things about who I am and what is real. If you are about to get this show where you live I highly recommend that you give it a try.

 

[GKA]

I have Roku so I should be able to get that series, sounds fascinating
I need some new material to watch besides "Wooster & Jeeves"

 

[Derek Barclay]

It's the writings of Eagleman and Sam Harris that have led to my belief that free will is an illusion. This thought seems to have alot of contenders, both here and in the world. It's also why I don't feel I can choose to believe in deity, if what is 'I' is more than just my ego or my thoughts. 'I' am existence and seemingly eternal, but 'i' am the ego and will no longer exist when this body expires. Or perhaps I do not at all know of what I'm taking about.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

It's the writings of Eagleman and Sam Harris that have led to my belief that free will is an illusion. This thought seems to have alot of contenders, both here and in the world. It's also why I don't feel I can choose to believe in deity, if what is 'I' is more than just my ego or my thoughts. 'I' am existence and seemingly eternal, but 'i' am the ego and will no longer exist when this body expires. Or perhaps I do not at all know of what I'm taking about.

I find your comments interesting for a variety of reasons. First, I had never heard of Sam Harris before. So I went to his website to read his comments about Eagleman http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/whither-eagleman On this page Mr. Harris commits the ultimate intellectual dishonestly of refusing to recognize the difference between God and Religion. Masonry teaches us to recognize and respect that difference. While you are free to read whomever you wish, I consider Mr Harris to be an angry man with an axe to grind and I suggest caution when considering his ideas.

Second, I consider freewill to be my ability to choose between my very limited options. It is like the rudder on a ship. I cannot use it to magically transport my ship to the other side of the earth, but I can use it to steer my ship in that direction.

 

[Ressam]

Brain -- "The Temple" of our "souls"...

"Decisions", mediscine , viagra, implantants, science...
Of course, Honorable Gentlemen, -- Knowing is important.
But, it's, still -- "Road to nowhere".
Humanity must change The Paradigm. The "Kornel". The Point of Matter. Of The Being...

 

[Ressam]

The "Key Point" here's that:
1.Function of the "soul" is -- To Believe.
2.Function of the "material/body/brain/mind is -- To Know.
3. The important Thing in Humans-- is The Soul.
We'll reach success -- when we change "The algorythm".

 

[BroBook]

Humans must get with the real program, truth whatever it is, does not change, only our understanding, as the saying goes " it is what it is".

 

[Ressam]

Humans must get with the real program, truth whatever it is, does not change, only our understanding, as the saying goes " it is what it is".

Hello, my Dear Friend, BroBook!
What is "The Real Program" that you mean?

 

[Derek Barclay]

On this page Mr. Harris commits the ultimate intellectual dishonestly of refusing to recognize the difference between God and Religion.

Maybe he genuinely doesn't see a line of separation. I tend to fail to. I'm not gonna try to defend his intellectual honesty because I think he does a pretty good job on his own. I've never heard or read anything by the guy that came across as insincere, and I actively searched.

 

[BroBook]

To seek that which was lost, TRUTH, if we can Subdue our passions, work and agree, there is nothing impossible for US.

 

[Ressam]

To seek that which was lost, TRUTH, if we can Subdue our passions, work and agree, there is nothing impossible for US.

Yes.
"The Truth will set you Free" (c) Jesus Christ

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

I'm not gonna try to defend his intellectual honesty because I think he does a pretty good job on his own. I've never heard or read anything by the guy that came across as insincere, and I actively searched.

It was never my intention to imply that Mr. Harris was insincere. I think that he believes what he says. I simply find his argument flawed. Regarding "the God of Abraham" he says "the books attesting to His existence bear every sign of having been cobbled together by ignorant mortals". (His words, not mine) If he believes this then he should disregard them as not having any relevant information about God. Instead he uses the works he has just discredited as the basis for his argument.

Maybe he genuinely doesn't see a line of separation. I tend to fail to.

Finding the line of separation can be extremely difficult. After all, all religions scream "No, No, Don't Look There!" But when I began to be able to let go of the idea that there was some kind of Magic behind it all, I began to realize that there is a logical structure to everything. If you look deep enough there is even a structure to the stories "cobbled together by ignorant mortals". Religion comes from a time when very few people any actual understanding of the nature of reality. When something happened that they didn't understand their only explanation was magic, God magic. Today many people have a hard time swallowing the idea of a magic God. But sometimes the Magic still happens. Only today science explains it to us. Lets face it, Jesus didn't fly into outer space and today we take space travel for granted! I could go on but I think that I have said enough for now.

 

[Ressam]

Lets face it, Jesus didn't fly into outer space and today we take that for granted! I could go on but I think that I have said enough for now.

Yes!
He didn't Fly to outer space! But!
He's gonna come from there!!! On The "Clouds"! Physical Body! From The Space! On White clouds! Jesus!
Daaayum! This is magic!
P.S. 1 thing which I'm wonderin' 'bout is: how fast/quickly He'll be approachin'?!
Slowly or fast?

 

[Ressam]

This is an interesting issue from various points of view.

The first question is: If human free will existed, would it be based in the human's mind?

If it were based in the mind, then any human that could not control its thoughts would not have sure access to free will.

The second question that occurs to me is: Is free will absolute, or does it exist within a context?

For example, is there a rule so that a human cannot reverse the expansion of the universe by intent alone?

The third question is: How many wills might exist within a human's system?

For example, I went through a stage where I would find that I had picked up a food item and eaten it without any mental awareness.

Unless those 3 questions can be answered sensibly, then I do not know how a human might engage in a serious discussion as to the existence of will in humans.

These questions also relate to preparedness for access to the genuine secrets.

Wadup, James!
Of course -- "Free Will" is existin'! Free Will Of Human.
This is The Great Gift from God.
To give us -- Freedom Of Choice!
The only Limit for Humanity is -- The Great Harmony.
No one can break this Law! This is The Will of the GAOTU!

 

[Ressam]

That is certainly the standard Christian belief.

But:

- Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you

Ezr 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom,

Joshua 11:20-22) For it was the LORD’S doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be devoted to destruction and should receive no mercy but be destroyed…

Proverbs 21:1 The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.


So do we have free will only if the Lord has not turned our heart?

We always have free will, Mr.James!
Doesn't matter what confession you believe: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddism, Daoism etc.
GAOTU is -- Love! Boundless Love!
And we're all -- humans are His Children!
I repeat: Free Will is only Limited with The Universe Harmony!

 

[coachn]

If: you believe that you don't have Free Will,
Then: whatever is controlling you has chosen for you the path of irresponsibility and non-accountability,
Because: it wants you to think that nothing you think, say or do is caused by you.

Conversely, if: you believe that you do have Free Will,
Then: whatever is controlling you has chosen for you the path of responsibility and accountability,
Because: it wants you to think that all that you think, say or do is caused by you.

 

[pointwithinacircle2]

If: you believe that you don't have Free Will,
Then: whatever is controlling you has chosen for you the path of irresponsibility and non-accountability,
Because: it wants you to think that nothing you think, say or do is caused by you.

Conversely, if: you believe that you do have Free Will,
Then: whatever is controlling you has chosen for you the path of responsibility and accountability,
Because: it wants you to think that all that you think, say or do is caused by you.

You seem to be saying that belief has psychological consequences. So often we search to discover the "origins" and "truth" of our beliefs. Perhaps it would be better to choose the consequences we desire and adjust our beliefs accordingly.

 

[coachn]

You seem to be saying that belief has psychological consequences. So often we search to discover the "origins" and "truth" of our beliefs. Perhaps it would be better to choose the consequences we desire and adjust our beliefs accordingly.

Yup. Furthermore, you're beliefs enslave you. Embrace them wisely for they shall be your masters.

 

[Ressam]

I was trained in mathematics as well as in theology, so I like to consider proofs.

For example many people over the centuries have demonstrated levitation. Is levitation a demonstration of free will?

Wassup, Mr.James!
What "proofs" do you need!
Always remember 'bout -- The Pharisees!
And, just know that we are not -- Robots!
Peace!

 

[Derek Barclay]

If you believe 'I' to be the ego then how can you believe in absolute freedom of will? The ego is constructed by one's life which is largely out of the individual's control. To commit to actions in order to compliment one's desires, to me, does not illustrate freedom of will. Where did the desires come from? Did you choose those?