My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Women in masonry

Bloke

Premium Member
.... I sat there amazed at the expertise but having no idea what was being said....

I look around and see a lot of lawyers in the craft, I often think this is the case because they are used to deciphering more complicated language than the rest of us. Likewise I often find people who read often find the ceremony more accessible than the average joe... do you think there is anything in that observation ?
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
I look around and see a lot of lawyers in the craft, I often think this is the case because they are used to deciphering more complicated language than the rest of us. Likewise I often find people who read often find the ceremony more accessible than the average joe... do you think there is anything in that observation ?

In my 1st and 3rd degrees I was overwhelmed by the content before the lecture so the lecture could have been out of a Doctor Suess book and I would not have noticed. In my 2nd degree the walking around and standing combined with the lectures being divided into parts made it far better absorbed by me.

For later hearings of the lecture I figure you nailed it. Vocabulary building and grammar manipulation are two of the ways we make good men better. They also happen to be part of grammar and rhetoric in the list of 3 liberal arts and sciences.

To me the ceremonies are for the candidates, the lectures are for the members.
 

acjohnson53

Registered User
Not hating on any one, women as their on EAS, Daughter's of Isis, and so forth..I don't intrude on their business, My name ain't Bro Sista Alberta Johnson..stay in y'all lane..
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
I belonged to a Co-Masonic Lodge prior to joining my current Jurisdiction. I can say that they take their Masonry very serious. They are not a social Order at all, they focus on the Work. They take the ritual serious. If you step off wrong, or don't cut that corner properly you're doing it again. Anyone looking for information about them should look at one of Karen Kidd's books. She received an award from the UGLE years ago for her paper titled "I'm Regular". While the UGLE doesn't recognize Co-Masonry she was recognized and referred to as Brother. She has written 2 books on the subject (the 2nd of which I am pictured in Lodge on page 195). They practice the Scottish Rite version of the Craft Degrees, which would probably be close to the Red Lodge rituals practiced in Louisiana. Although they are considered Irregular they definitely couldn't be placed in the same category as the JGJ or PHO lodges. The all female Lodges descend from the Co-Masonic Orders, which descend from the French Lodges. Any UK Mason who has witnessed the Emulation Ritual should be able to follow the ritual. I never saw any problems in Lodge that would make me believe that men and women can't sit in Lodge together.
I think there's a place for male Lodge, women Lodges, and Co-Masonic Lodges. Most countries, outside of America, don't have a problem with women in Masonry. America is where the problem lies. But I definitely understand why men may not want to sit in Lodge with a women. Although they cannot join my Grand Lodge, nor sit in Lodge with us, I wouldn't go as far as saying they aren't Masons. I'd say they are as legitimate as the French Masons, just unrecognized.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Thanks for your interesting post TMan, I think Bro Karen Kidd changed my thinking of regularity, but that said, I can't sit in lodge with her and would vote to keep my GL as a fraternity.

.....Most countries, outside of America, don't have a problem with women in Masonry. America is where the problem lies.....

Depends on what you mean by "have a problem".... I would say most Freemasons in Australia, the vast vast majority of which are working under GLs recognised by UGLE, don't get bent out of shape by there being woman Freemasons, but any suggestion to incorporate women into our GL never gets very far, so perhaps most Australian Freemasons would have a "problem" with women in Freemasonry..
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
Thanks for your interesting post TMan, I think Bro Karen Kidd changed my thinking of regularity, but that said, I can't sit in lodge with her and would vote to keep my GL as a fraternity.



Depends on what you mean by "have a problem".... I would say most Freemasons in Australia, the vast vast majority of which are working under GLs recognised by UGLE, don't get bent out of shape by there being woman Freemasons, but any suggestion to incorporate women into our GL never gets very far, so perhaps most Australian Freemasons would have a "problem" with women in Freemasonry..

I was referring to women being Masons, period. Women joining male Lodges, well that's an entirely different discussion. I'm fine with a "Separate but Equal" situation.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Thanks for the clarification.

If Freemasons value equality and respect, surely we can extend that to other organisaiton which value and pursue similar goals and values... I never quite get regular freemasons who will not treat co-freemasons and the like with respect...
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
Thanks for the clarification.

If Freemasons value equality and respect, surely we can extend that to other organisaiton which value and pursue similar goals and values... I never quite get regular freemasons who will not treat co-freemasons and the like with respect...

People fear what they don't understand. Grand Lodge says they're Clandestine so nobody takes the time to look into it. If I hadn't been a Co-Mason before I would probably have the same attitude. But having sat in Lodge with them I know how dedicated they are. I remember a Brother joining from Mexico who was limited in English. Another Brother flew in from New York just to translate the ritual into Spanish. Then immediately (and I do mean Immediately) after the Initiation the Brother left and got right back on a plane to New York. I thought that was insane. I remember dissecting the entire Book of Constitutions, 1 paragraph per meeting. Having to write papers and discuss, even breaking down each exam question and what it means to us. Before you can advance to the next degree members have to do a "Work of the hands", displaying the operative side of Masonry. I could go on and on about those types of things.

When I joined my new Lodge most of the members had never heard of Co-Masonry. They were a little hesitant. My vote got pushed back a few times, until a good Brother someone stepped in and did some research. I was thinking about giving up, but he stayed on me. He saw the Masonry in me and I saw the true Masonry in him. That Brother became my biggest support and is ultimately the reason I joined.

I love my Lodge and wouldn't think of leaving, but I doubt even the most dedicated Brothers in my Lodge could handle the amount of discipline and dedication that the Co-Masonic Lodge displayed. Those lessons I learned there have made me a better Mason in my new Lodge. I have received praise from Grand Lodge officers about how I present myself, the memorization of the Obs., etc. People who have visited my Lodge, even when I was an EA, would make comments to me like "You've done this before haven't you?" or "You know it better than me." I just smile and nod.
 
Last edited:

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
From everything that I have read and heard, the problem lies in both the ignorance and assumption of the members.

Many men are unknowingly and trustingly indoctrinated into society cultures that assumes that their organization is the only legitimate one. They are mistaken.

These same men also believe that their practice is the only legitimate practice. Here too they are mistaken.

Unfortunately, in playing both out, they are sucked so far down the rabbit hole of these two fallacies that they attack anyone who dares contradict with facts. This is a shame since in doing so, they inevitably sabotage the very intent of what the Society tries to Cultivate -- incivility, inconsideration, misunderstanding, and intolerance are but a few things that manifest though their blind devotion to a fabricated idol.

Fact: Legitimacy is established by a whole bunch of rules that help regulate the franchise nature of specific Freemasonic orders. It is fabricated!

Fact: Legitimacy is based upon a lot of fallacies that assume the fabricated lore is Factual.

Fact: A lot of Freemasonic Lore is fun, thought-provoking and intentionally entertaining, but some is not Factual.

Fact:
Since every last one of these Freemasonic Societies is a Total-Immersion Live-Action Alternative-Reality Role-Playing Theatrical Society, each makes up their own rules and Acts According to those Rules, all designed to protect the interest of that society. This includes all the dogma put forth to reinforce protective natures.

Fact: Both Female Craft and Co-masonic Craft as a whole have no collective interest in attending Male Craft Lodges to co-mingle during Male Craft Lodge activities. In other words, they could not care less. (As an aside, I understand that they would like to be respected for what they Practice, but this respect is not necessary since they shall continue to Practice no matter what attitudes, biases and bigotries they may encounter.)
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Both Female Craft and Co-masonic Craft as a whole have no collective interest in attending Male Craft Lodges to co-mingle during Male Craft Lodge activities. In other words, they could not care less. (As an aside, I understand that they would like to be respected for what they Practice, but this respect is not necessary since they shall continue to Practice no matter what attitudes, biases and bigotries they may encounter.)
I can agree with this. I would not set in lodge with women but if a separate organization want to do this more power to them.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
It's not universally male, as there are cultures that revere the Sacred Feminine. This particular universe just has a lot of patriarchal societies who have forced their "vision" upon the masses.
I prefer to see it as a duality.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
It's not universally male, as there are cultures that revere the Sacred Feminine. This particular universe just has a lot of patriarchal societies who have forced their "vision" upon the masses.
I prefer to see it as a duality.
In the LDS faith (Mormon) we accept there are a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.
 
Top