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Question:

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Bro., it's a long thread and admittedly I have not been following. To what new information do you refer?

Look at post #6 on page 1. Brother Hairston has written a book documenting that some key dates for PHA Masonry are wrong.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Look at post #6 on page 1. Brother Hairston has written a book documenting that some key dates for PHA Masonry are wrong.
First thoughts: I'd like to see what is written in "Warrant No. 459", if only out of curiosity.

Other than that, although I don't have a dog in the fight, it appears by the question, "Was Prince Hall a Prince Hall Mason?", that Prince Hall was a Freemason of outstanding influence; enough influence to have a whole version of Masonry named after him.

That being said, I think the question to ask is: Was he alive when "Prince Hall" Masonry was officially named after him?

And just a side question: Why would the original poster get this thread started with two questions that he appears to have already had answered for himself?
 
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MasonicAdept

Premium Member
And just a side question: Why would the original poster get this thread started with two questions that he appears to have already had answered for himself?

@coachn

The answer is: Because the original poster was getting other people's opinions and why they held them.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Well, I can tell you this. You are free to petition any state grand lodge and not worry about being blackballed because of the color of your skin. I have to drive almost 90 minutes to get to my lodge on meeting nights. There are many lodges that are closer including about 5 within a 10 mile radius of my house.

Right before I was initiated, I sold a riding lawn mower through one of local buy/sell/trade Facebook groups. The gentleman that eventually bought it was an older Caucasian man. When he came to look at it, I knew he was a freemason cause he was wearing a hat with the Square & Compasses. I told him I was going to be initiated next week. He told me what lodge he belonged to. It was local and one I thought about petitioning. I told him I had concerns if I petitioned. Surprisingly, he admitted that there were still some members of that lodge where race would be an issue. It confirmed to me that I made the right decision.
Thats called racism not white privilege. And ive been told by PHA masons that it works the other way too.... that they know a white man would get blackballed in their lodge.

By saying "white" privlige your saying that just hy being white ima get something. No...not true. In fact i was once profiled in Fayetteville, nc by a WHITE cop. I had gotten lost(had only been stationed there for about 3 days) amd was trying to get back to base and got pulled over. He conducted a felony trafgic stop on me...thats where they get outta the car, guns drawn using the PA system to walk you back to them....handcuffed me and searched my car with our saying a word to me. And i didnt say or argue with him as i knew i hant done anything wrong.... Once they didnt find anything in my car he asked me what i was doing where i was. I told him i had just gottem stationed at Ft Bragg as a Military Policeman and was trying to get back to base. I then asked him why i was stopped. He laughed amd said cause ur white. Only time white people come to this neighborhood is to buy girls or drugs. He took the cuffs off and told me how to get back to post.

Call it white privilge if u want cause i got let go with out getting beat i call it "cause I was respectful and didnt argue or question i just did as i was told."

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Thats called racism not white privilege. And ive been told by PHA masons that it works the other way too.... that they know a white man would get blackballed in their lodge.

By saying "white" privlige your saying that just hy being white ima get something. No...not true. In fact i was once profiled in Fayetteville, nc by a WHITE cop. I had gotten lost(had only been stationed there for about 3 days) amd was trying to get back to base and got pulled over. He conducted a felony trafgic stop on me...thats where they get outta the car, guns drawn using the PA system to walk you back to them....handcuffed me and searched my car with our saying a word to me. And i didnt say or argue with him as i knew i hant done anything wrong.... Once they didnt find anything in my car he asked me what i was doing where i was. I told him i had just gottem stationed at Ft Bragg as a Military Policeman and was trying to get back to base. I then asked him why i was stopped. He laughed amd said cause ur white. Only time white people come to this neighborhood is to buy girls or drugs. He took the cuffs off and told me how to get back to post.

Call it white privilge if u want cause i got let go with out getting beat i call it "cause I was respectful and didnt argue or question i just did as i was told."

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app

We will agree to disagree. I am well aware of what racism is.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
You had me right up untill then. Im done. White privilege? Really?
Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app

Really. As white guy, I think in a historical context you can use the phrase "white privilege... just as I come from a Irish Catholic background and might use the phrase Protestant Privilege.. (and there was = enshrined in law in the UK).. really even today such things exist. I think in the context of the 1700 & 1800's you're on completely safe ground using the phrase "white privilege" and probably the same all the way until post ww2. Sadly, it's still they way is some places, but make no mistake, "white privilege" and "racism" are not the same thing..

So when PH sent that letter to England he purposely remitted facts about how he and other members were MADE Masons? He lied. He lied for the purpose of getting a Warrent. So the history of PHA was fabricated amd the truth was a lie? Hmmm.....I agree with you @Bloke at least these issues are being raised by PHA member amd not from.wothout

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
That remains to be seen... but he might have just made omissions or not included all the facts.. he mighta been thinking like a salesperson or lawyer who really needed to get a warrant......
 
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MasonicAdept

Premium Member
That remains to be seen... but he might have just made omissions or not included all the facts.. he mighta been thinking like a salesperson or lawyer who really needed to get a warrant......

@Bloke
You hit the nail on the head. This was my point. We have to understand the historical context to understand the actions of Prince Hall.
Yes, Prince Hall omitted John Batt and his conferral of the degrees on African Lodge, it could have cost them their charter.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
@Bloke
You hit the nail on the head. This was my point. We have to understand the historical context to understand the actions of Prince Hall.
Yes, Prince Hall omitted John Batt and his conferral of the degrees on African Lodge, it could have cost them their charter.

I will say goodnight, but the text of the charter would be interesting.... some lodges were given special rights and privileges in their warrant...
 

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Let's look at the facts. It had already been determined that Prince Hall Masonry had an irregular formation. There were other US grand lodges that were formed irregularly as well, that was deemed acceptable considering time period.

http://bessel.org/masrec/phaugle.htm

You never hear anyone complain about the irregular formation of these other grand lodges. In fact they are all recognized by the UGLE and the grand lodges that won't recognize their PHA counterpart due to its irregular formation.

Shocking!
 
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