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Why is the north a place of darkness?

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
Masonic ritual is one of the few places that uses the word ecliptic. Perhaps we might consider the position of the ecliptic in the northern reaches of the northern hemisphere.
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Perhaps the real question is: why are there only 3 principal officers when we know that a Freemason's temple extends in 4 directions?

The 3 principal officer structure extends through all the degrees and orders to which I have belonged. Why is it special?

In the pre-Relativity world there were three known spacial dimensions. Plumb level and square, length height depth, many different lists. Extending in 4 directions is a projection onto those three dimensions. One of the meanings of the Letter G in American ritual is Geometry so let's take this as a spacial geometry lesson.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
My mother lodge met last night and I asked two older members about the north of the lodge. One said that there was so little light that entered the north end of Solomon's Temple, therefore, the symbolism. As for the chair I was told the same as one of the Brother's comments here. It is for use by the OES.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
And that makes the 3rd dimension.
Exactly; h, l, d. (Or x, y, z.)

So what is the work in temple so large? Surely it is beyond human scale.
Is it so large? From the north to the south, the east to the west, the firmament to the heavens can exist within my body, within my mind. Standing within a redwood forest or a chamber in the temple, it is only as vast, or as small, as I require it to be to Work.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
The rough ashlar of course is the work of the EA and the work on that is largely private. So what is the work of a lodge of MM when there is no candidate?

I have yet to find a brother with a good answer - even to the 33rd degree.

The rough ashlar is not just about the first degree, if you agree it symbolises the man, and, say following your focus on "the hidden mysteries" and spiritualism, how can a man's ashlar approach smooth when it only looks solely at the lessons of the first degree ? A smooth ashlar has 6 faces, 8 corners, and many places is can be illformed- it's the complete man and beyond. Candidate are about teaching, the ashlar is about learning and adjusting which should be present in everything.
 

chrmc

Registered User
Do you have a view on what is the work of the FC?

There is no simple message to this, largely because masonry isn't dogmatic, but a personal journey. You can easily point to the facts that are presented in any of the degrees and say that this is the work of that degree and you'd be right. But you can also start reading the lessons and working tools on the allegorical level and point to them. Yet another angle is seeing the degrees as the three ages of man and that'll give you a different interpretation. And if you further consider the lodge as a representation of yourself and the psyche then you come up with something different.
And to me all these answers would be correct.

I'm sure that if we spent some time we can find the overarching themes that we can agree belongs to each of the degrees, but to me it is of much great importance that each mason actually DOES some work and tries to improve himself rather than considering IF it's the right work for that degree.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Do you have a view on what is the work of the FC?

of course... "... the connection of our whole system and the relative dependence of its parts....." the FC sits in that context. it is part of a whole and not an end in itself. it is not the only thing one should focus on and Freemasonry, for the MM, is not a staged system but a total one; which we fathom gradually but not according to the linear degree progression.. Respectfully, I feel like I am listening to a one track record which has "the hidden mysteries and nature and science" as the track. There is a spiritual side of the Second Degree many miss and only see in the third degree. Indeed it runs through all three degrees that, as individual experiences, and as the sum of the whole, are supposed to deepen our understanding as individuals of ourselves , our place in the world and our relationship with the divine. All this depends to some extent on the ritual you have experienced (i suspect your experience here is different to mine) and how that "works"... but of course the FC is told to look outside the system to nature and science but these are not the peculiar study of Freemasonry, if you think it is, and there * is * an arguable it is, I'll let you know when I've gone to the Grand Lodge Above...
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Is it so large?

One of the conundrums. We are told the lodge covers the entire universe. But we're only told that after the lodge is tiled within a small physical space. We are told to treat all well, but Brothers better.

I figure it means the room is small so our hearts are to be large.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Masonry is a social club promoting morality, charity and ritual.
There fixed it for ya.

Please tell me what are these "hidden mysteries" are please. This is a sincere question. And please make it Barmey style for me. Cause i may already be searchimg for them and not know it. A few weeks ago we had a very good talk at lodge on the Golden Mean and how it related to life and Masonry...really got me thinking about strength and beauty and what they really mean.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
The rough ashlar of course is the work of the EA and the work on that is largely private.
Only if you care to go it alone. It might be personal work, but it gets done a lot quicker when there is an experienced brother mentoring.
So what is the work of a lodge of MM when there is no candidate?
Learning and teaching yourself, as it has always been and shall always be.
I have yet to find a brother with a good answer - even to the 33rd degree.
Perhaps Brothers actually have and you simply cannot see or hear it as an acceptable answer based upon your peculiar way of seeing and hearing things.
Do you have a view on what is the work of the FC?
Yes. It is Learning How to Learn by focusing upon Symbols as they appear as words and numbers to bring order to the chaos of the mind.

Of course, this follows the EA Work: Preparing to Learn by focusing upon bringing order to the chaos of the heart.
...It is very rare to find a brother who wishes to penetrate the hidden mysteries or even takes seriously study of the seven liberal arts and sciences.
It's even rarer to find one who doesn't cover the temple beauty with a lot of rubbish.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
As far as I can tell all native peoples experience (or at least believe) the Earth as alive and humans as embedded in an intelligent ecosystem that extends out to the stars.

Westerners however tend to believe they walk upon the Earth and that the Earth is an accidental (or created) lump of rock.

Some Westerners are now reconsidering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

So if the Earth is alive and we are part of it, then there is no free lunch. Hence we get to the idea: as you sow, so shall you reap.

This means that we start to take responsibility for what happens to us. And that of course encourages us to establish right relationships including with the Earth, e.g. recycling.

Now as we improve our relationships with the Earth system, we start to change our behavior to fit with the preferences of other beings, e.g. companion planting. http://www.greenlifesoil.com.au/sustainable-gardening-tips/companion-planting

And we start to learn natural cycles in Nature e.g. moon cycle planting. http://www.almanac.com/content/planting-moons-phase-gardening-calendar

The progressively increased sensitivity to cycles in Nature and Spirit allows us to be much more effective, knowing when the tide is in.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
Julius Caesar Act 4, scene 3, 218–224"

As we improve relationships externally the same process is occurring internally so that we begin to understand whence come our feelings and thoughts. This allows an accelerated process of integration and we become more acceptable to the flows of Spirit.

Thus in the simplest term the hidden mysteries of nature and science concern relationships and flows in the life system we call the Earth. As we see into those we become more skillful and competent in all our thoughts, actions and relationships. Nature increasingly supports our actions and we look to others as if we are rather lucky.

For those so inclined there are various systematic applications that can be called spiritual sciences but few seem called to those at present. One of the core skills is veiled by the ladder that appears in the EA TB, and the 18th & 30th degrees.

So for most people entrance to the hidden mysteries of nature results in an inner contentment and an elegant simplicity of life.

For a minority of people, entrance to the hidden mysteries allows them to be much more effective in their paths of inner and outer work.

When I was a teenager I seriously though of becoming an animist - but the read "God is in everything" which reconciled my feelings with the traditional main stream church I grew up in...

I like these threads, they might produce different views but they teach, even if only to consider my own position...
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
As far as I can tell all native peoples experience (or at least believe) the Earth as alive and humans as embedded in an intelligent ecosystem that extends out to the stars.... ... Some Westerners are now reconsidering. ....
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
As far as I can tell all native peoples experience (or at least believe) the Earth as alive and humans as embedded in an intelligent ecosystem that extends out to the stars.

Westerners however tend to believe they walk upon the Earth and that the Earth is an accidental (or created) lump of rock.

Some Westerners are now reconsidering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis

So if the Earth is alive and we are part of it, then there is no free lunch. Hence we get to the idea: as you sow, so shall you reap.

This means that we start to take responsibility for what happens to us. And that of course encourages us to establish right relationships including with the Earth, e.g. recycling.

Now as we improve our relationships with the Earth system, we start to change our behavior to fit with the preferences of other beings, e.g. companion planting. http://www.greenlifesoil.com.au/sustainable-gardening-tips/companion-planting

And we start to learn natural cycles in Nature e.g. moon cycle planting. http://www.almanac.com/content/planting-moons-phase-gardening-calendar

The progressively increased sensitivity to cycles in Nature and Spirit allows us to be much more effective, knowing when the tide is in.

"There is a tide in the affairs of men.
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.
Julius Caesar Act 4, scene 3, 218–224"

As we improve relationships externally the same process is occurring internally so that we begin to understand whence come our feelings and thoughts. This allows an accelerated process of integration and we become more acceptable to the flows of Spirit.

Thus in the simplest term the hidden mysteries of nature and science concern relationships and flows in the life system we call the Earth. As we see into those we become more skillful and competent in all our thoughts, actions and relationships. Nature increasingly supports our actions and we look to others as if we are rather lucky.

For those so inclined there are various systematic applications that can be called spiritual sciences but few seem called to those at present. One of the core skills is veiled by the ladder that appears in the EA TB, and the 18th & 30th degrees.

So for most people entrance to the hidden mysteries of nature results in an inner contentment and an elegant simplicity of life.

For a minority of people, entrance to the hidden mysteries allows them to be much more effective in their paths of inner and outer work.
See that sounds way less wack-a-doo then most of ur posts. All that stuff makes sense but its not "hidden" thats just "do unto others" stuff. But on the flip side some of the best people ive met were under a bridge because they only thought of other people and the most siccessful happy people ive met were the biggest aholes cause all they thought about were them and their own. So the put good in to the universe get good out is crap....
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Coach,
See that sounds way less wack-a-doo then most of ur posts. All that stuff makes sense but its not "hidden" thats just "do unto others" stuff. But on the flip side some of the best people ive met were under a bridge because they only thought of other people and the most siccessful happy people ive met were the biggest aholes cause all they thought about were them and their own. So the put good in to the universe get good out is crap....

I'm an under the bridge type... we have a line about giving which is " without detriment to ourselves or our connections" which I try to use to temper my generosity as does thinking of the four cardinal virtues which include temperance and prudence... of the other two in spades...
 

SimonM

Registered User
As far as I can tell all native peoples experience (or at least believe) the Earth as alive and humans as embedded in an intelligent ecosystem that extends out to the stars.

Westerners however tend to believe they walk upon the Earth and that the Earth is an accidental (or created) lump of rock.

James,
Here I have to disagree with you. Seeing the creation as something we are interconnected with and in some sense alive (or its modern new age variant with the gaia theory) is not the hidden mysteries. That is what more or less every person on earth up untill the 19th century thought to be true. We in the west are right now in a strange anomaly where most just see the creation as a rock spinning in space.
What you discribed was one way (out of many) on how to make a person more considerate and moral, nothing more. I agree that it is important, but once again, not the hidden mysteries.

Please tell me what are these "hidden mysteries" are please. This is a sincere question.

In the western tradition, the hidden mysteries discribe our relationship with God (and to some extent creation) and the how to reach that understanding.
There are several paths and some have slightly different aims, but the most common ones sets as their highest goal for the person to rise up to see God while still alive. Or to discribe it in another way, the process will make you realise the nature of man, creation and God with the same clairity that the Apostles, prophets (or the Buddha) had.


My interpretation on what James have been asking for quite some time now, what the work of the MM is, alludes to the mysteries.
It is said that in the past that degree alone could start the process that ends with enlightenment. This is no longer the case, but for many it is a good foundation and starting point for those who want to go deeper.

(James, let me know if I misunderstood you in any way!)



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