911 Words About 'Obama's Mosque

[jonesvilletexas]

This past week, Mr. President, even though no one was asking you to, you stepped into the most painful issue related to the hallowed grounds of 9/11 to date. You chose sides, even when nobody cared if you did. So how do you fell?

 

[Blake Bowden]

[video=youtube;EZOIBEEvbO0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZOIBEEvbO0[/video]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Benton]

I don't think anyone is questioning the right of the Muslim group to built the mosque in Manhattan in the location they desire. I think the right to build there is universally acknowledged.

I think what people are questioning is the tact and prudence of building in that particular spot. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should. I don't know the motivations of the project leader, so I really want to assume his intentions are pure. However, I can see how those who lost loved ones would find this whole situation distressing. It seems like they chose this location with intent. If they really wish to engender tolerance, this is not the best way to do it. Starting by offending the sensitivities of a particular set of people isn't wise.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how the whole thing pans out. I hope there is a peaceful, mutual agreement that all parties reach so no one ends up being slighted. Given the polarized state of American politics, however, I don't know that will happen at this point in time.

 

[owls84]

I could not agree more with what he is saying. I am fed up that we want to embrace religious freedom as long as it pertains to our religion. If they wanted to build a Catholic Church there not one person would be raising an eyebrow. Why is this any different? Just because a person is Muslim doesn't mean they have to strap a bomb on their chest and take someone out. What about Timothy McVey? What about the guy yesterday in McKinney? What about Gacey? We could go on and on about people of various faiths that have done bad things. Hatred knows no religion and to single out a group, that keep in mind is larger than Christians by almost two fold, is horrible.

This country was founded on the freedom of religion just as the freedom of speech and the right to assemble. You can't have one without the other freedoms. We complain of how we don't want our Government to take our freedoms away and finally when a President has the intestinal fortitude to finally stand up for the people we criticize him. I don't get it.

What about what he said did you not agree with? Do you think there were no Muslims killed in 9/11?

 

[jonesvilletexas]

What would you expect with a Muslim as a President. He did not have friends or family at ground zero, OH he was on the other side.

 

[JTM]

ignorance JVT, let's try to avoid it.

Things that are true:

Obama is not a muslim.

He was not "on the other side"

There is a mosque 4 blocks from the 9/11 site and nobody has said anything about that one. The 9/11 area is actually quite "muslim" in that there are several arabic/persian/paki restaurants and other places to go. Building a mosque here actually makes sense. There is demand for one there.

No matter where the Muslims try to build mosques, there are those that hate freedom of religion there trying to protest it. I'm really surprised it made it to these forums.



Now, I ask you a couple questions:

What would you have anyone do? They are paying 100 million to turn this rundown building into a good looking building. If you don't love freedom of religion, then you can at least appreciate the capitalism of it all. Why is no one berating the people that sold them the building?

Presidents often weigh in on social issues. They have been for 2 centuries. They are often wrong and most of the time nobody cares one way or the other. It doesn't matter what he says anyway, the constitution protects their right to build it. Why would you threaten that? When they become the majority, as they are on track to do, would you appreciate them taking away your right to build a church?

There are plenty of reasons to criticize, challenge, and hate the guy, but this is a poor subject to talk about and one that hardly deserves even an email forward.




My note as a moderator: If we can't keep this within the purview of reason and light, I'll lock this thread. Any more "Obama is on the side of the terrorists" and it's done.

 

[Sirius]

I like what the Daily Show said: "You can build a Catholic Church next to a playground, but should you?" Like Josh said, we can't expect every religion to be held accountable for those who have done terrible things.

 

[owls84]

Wow. You meant to tell me that that attacks on 9/11 were the Muslims vs. Christians? That plane and fire did not draw the line on who died. Muslims died in those attacks just as Christians and people of many faiths. EVERY credible report has OUR President as not being Muslim. His father is and that is where he got his name however his Grandmother is Christian which is who raised him.

The attacks on 9/11 were by a group of terrorists and did not refect the feelings of the Muslim faith just as the attacks in Oklahoma City did not speak for Christians since Timothy McVey was Christian. These people are radicals just as ALL faiths have radicals and I am personally horrified that you would have such a radical view. You refuse to look at the facts of what you are saying. You have taken a personal agenda and decided to attach that with a point that the President is trying to make.

The one things these radicals play into are the ignorance of the American people like this. Would we not be better to say "You know what, this is a great idea. You build your Mosque and we will build our churches all right here. Lets show the world that religions can survive in unity just as it does in Lodges. We can all work on the greater good of man. We can't continue to fight us vs them. This is happening all over the world and we will not have it here. We may all be of different faiths, creed, races, and backgrounds but we can come together and work together to make the MORE PERFECT union in the world. The United States of America."

As I typed that I am reminded of the tenet of Brotherly Love. I challange anyone to flip the tables and ask yourself how would I feel if it were a Church being built and people came to protest the building of the Church and the president came to bat for you. You would feel happy that someone in Washington is attempting to protect your freedom. I am asking you to follow the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


I don't care what religion you are. That still applies.

JESUS CHRIST:
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

"Jesus said to him, You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your mind and with all your soul… and You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
(Jesus Christ, Matthew 22:36-40)

BAHA'U'LLAH:
"O son of man! If thine eyes be turned towards mercy, forsake the things that profit thee and cleave unto that which will profit mankind. And if thine eyes be turned towards justice, choose thou for thy neighbour that which thou choosest for thyself."
(Baha'u'llah, The third Leaf of the Most Exalted Paradise, Tablets, p. 64)

BUDDHISM:
"Hurt not others with that which pains yourself or in ways that you yourself would find hurtful. One should seek for others the happiness one desires for one's self"
(Udana-Varqa, 5:18)

HINDUISM:
"This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others that which would cause pain if done unto you."
(Mahabharata 5:1517)

"Do not to others what ye do not wish done to yourself; and wish for others too, what ye desire and long for, for yourself. This is the whole of Dharma, heed it well."
(The Celestial Song, 2:65)

ZOROASTRIANISM:
"That nature ONLY is good when it shall NOT DO unto another whatever is not good for its own self."
(Dadistan-i-Dinik, 94:5)

"Whatsoever is disagreeable to yourself do not do unto others."
(Shayast-na-Shayast 13:29)

That which is good for all and any one, for whomsoever - that is good for me. What I hold good for self, I should for all. Only Law Universal, is true Law."
(Zoroaster, Yasana-Gathas)

JAINIST:
"A man should wander about treating all creatures as he himself would be treated."
(Sutrakritanga 1.11.33)

SIKH:
"Precious like jewels are the minds of all. To hurt them is not at all good. If thou desirest thy Beloved, then hurt thou not anyone's heart."
(Guru Aranj Devji 259, Guru Granth Sahib)

CONFUCIANISM:
"Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you."
(Analects, 15:23)

"If one strives to treat others as he would be treated by them, he will come near the perfect life."
(Book of Meng Tzu)

WESTERN SCHOOLS:
"What you wish your neighbors to be to you, such be also to them."
(Pythagorean)

"We should conduct ourselves toward others as we would have them act toward us."
(Aristotle, from Plato and Socrates)

"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing."
(Thales)

"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."
(Pittacus)

"Cherish reciprocal benevolence, which will make you as anxious for another's welfare as your own"
(Aristippus of Cyrene).

"Act toward others as you desire them to act toward you"
(Isocrates)

TAO:
"Pity the misfortunes of others; rejoice in the well-being of others; help those who are in want; save men in danger; rejoice at the success of others; and sympathise with their reverses, even as though YOU WERE in their place."

"The sage has no interests of his own, but regards the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind, he is also kind to the unkind: for virtue is kind."
(T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien)

NATIVE AMERICAN:
"Love your friend and never desert him. If you see him surrounded by the enemy do not run away; go to him, and if you cannot save him, be killed together and let your bones lie side by side."
(Sur-AR-Ale-Shar, The Lessons of the Lone Chief)

"Do not kill or injure your neighbor, for it is not him that you injure, you injure yourself. But do good to him, therefore add to his days of happiness as you add to your own. Do not wrong or hate your neighbor, for it is not him that you wrong, you wrong yourself. But love him, for The Great Spirit (Moneto) loves him also as he loves you."
(Shawnee)

"Respect for all life is the foundation."
(The Great Law of Peace)

AFRICAN TRADITIONAL RELIGION:
"A SAGE is ingenuous and leads his life after comprehending the parity of the killed and the killer. THEREFORE, neither does he cause violence to others nor does he make others do so."
(Yoruba Proverb, Nigeria)

"One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
(Yoruba Proverb, Nigeria)

ISLAM:
"Not one of you is a believer until he desires for another that which he desires for himself."
(Muhammad, 40 Hadith of an-Nawawi 13)

"Do unto all men as you would they should do unto you, and reject for them that which you would reject for yourself."
(Mishkat-el-Masabih)

JUDAISM:
"What is hateful to you, DO NOT to your fellow man. That is the law: all the rest is commentary."
(Talmud, Shabbat 31a)

"Thou shalt LOVE thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD."
(Moses, Leviticus 19:18)

CHRISTIANITY:
"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."
(Matthew 7:12)

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
(Luke 6:31)

BAHA'I WORLD FAITH:
"Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself."
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets, p. 71)

"Lay not on any soul a load which ye would not wish to be laid on you, and desire not for any one the things ye would not desire for yourselves."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings LXVI, p. 128)

"Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not. This is my command unto thee, do thou observe it."
(Baha'u'llah, The Hidden Words, Arabic # 29)

"Choose for thy neighbor that which thou choosest for thyself."
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 30)

 

[Blake Bowden]

i like what the daily show said: "you can build a catholic church next to a playground, but should you?" like josh said, we can't expect every religion to be held accountable for those who have done terrible things.

lol!

 

[JTM]

I like what the Daily Show said: "You can build a Catholic Church next to a playground, but should you?" Like Josh said, we can't expect every religion to be held accountable for those who have done terrible things.

as a catholic, i find this joke hilarious.

 

[jonesvilletexas]

The news did not show that the only church destroyed was a Greek Christian Church across the street from ground zero and NY will not let them rebuild it. So what’s up?

 

[JTM]

they are building a skyscraper across the street. likely a permit issue until the skyscraper is done.

 

[jonesvilletexas]

Yes that’s it!

 

[owls84]

Yes that’s it!

Actually with a little Google search it looks as if the Port Authority was going to do a bunch for the church that was destroyed but they are not wanting to comply. So looks like no one is stopping the building of the church but the chruch. Again not on the news because that is not what gets ratings.

The Port Authority agreed to give the church a parcel of land at Liberty and Greenwich Streets, and contribute $20 million toward construction of a new sanctuary. The Port Authority also agreed to build an explosion-proof platform and foundation for the new church building, which would sit on top of a screening area for cars and trucks entering the underground garages at the new World Trade Center.

Trouble emerged after St. Nicholas announced its plans to build a traditional Greek Orthodox church building, 24,000 square feet in size, topped with a grand dome. Port Authority officials told the church to cut back the size of the building and the height of the proposed dome, limiting it to rising no higher than the World Trade Center memorial. The deal fell apart for goodin March 2009, when the Port Authority abruptly ended the talks after refusing to allow church officials to review plans for the garage and screening area underneath. Sixteen months later, the two sides have still not met to resume negotiations.

 

[Sirius]

Why does anyone that does not live in NYC have a heated opinion on this? All of the bluster I've heard about it has been from conservative politicians from everywhere but NYC.

Is this a real issue?

 

[owls84]

That is kind of what I was wondering Sirus. So I was looking around the net and found plenty of stories covering both sides.

The Mayor of NYC Bloomberg:

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has supported the church as well as the mosque, defended the mosque proposal Tuesday.

"I think it will add to the diversity of the area," Bloomberg said. As for Obama's comments, he said: "He understands the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as well as anyone."

And that seems to be the concesus of what I am seeing. The people in New York all say both can be built and it not be a problem. The media and poloticians are the ones looking for a story or campaign edge. I would venture to say this is a NON-STORY. Both Churches will be built eveuntually and that is a wonderful thing. To me that defines what we are in America just as I stated earlier. After reading the various stories on this I do feel better because the opinions that are being thrown do not show to be supporting the actions. It seems most that live there are ok with the Mosque and they also know the Chruch will soon be built as well. It seems the Port Authority is about to re-open up talks again with St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church soon. They have enen stated they can have the larger land 2 blocks away as stated or their small piece they previously had. I feel a resolution will soon happen in the the St. Nicholas case and both will exist in Manhattan near Ground Zero.

 

[JTM]

Why does anyone that does not live in NYC have a heated opinion on this? All of the bluster I've heard about it has been from conservative politicians from everywhere but NYC.

Is this a real issue?

I believe the correct term is "neoconservative" or "pseudoconservative"

 

[Sirius]

I believe the correct term is "neoconservative" or "pseudoconservative"

You are 100% correct, I stand corrected.

I have not been able to figure out how any real 'conservative' would want to tell another place how to do their business. When Newt Gingrich said the Mosque should only be allowed when a synagogue or church was built in Mecca, I fell out of my chair. The suggestion that we lower our standards to that of Saudi Arabia is odd for someone who proclaims to love the Constitution and value local rights. Very odd indeed.

 

[peace out]

When I first heard about this, I thought "what a fantastic country where a religion can find peace in a country despite the radicals actions. How great is it that we not only individualize freedom but individualize wrongful actions." Although I agree with many that the idea or location is tactless, that it can be done makes my heart swell.

 

[Benton]

I believe the correct term is "neoconservative" or "pseudoconservative"

I think I'd be careful throwing around labels. While my opinion isn't heated, and I do support the right of individuals to build their Mosque/Community Center at the propose site, I understand while 9/11 family members might be upset over the issue. I don't really care one way or another whether or not it gets built, but I can certainly be sympathetic. If my father/wife etc had died in the attacks, I don't know, my opinion my be stronger.

I just think it's fair to try and consider all angles, no matter how foreign they might be to us, ourselves.

Btw, I consider myself a strong libertarian, and am always for more rights and freedoms.

EDIT: Yes, there are fringe elements who would block the building of the Mosque entirely. But I think its important to remember they are just that, fringe, and often times only get coverage because they shout the loudest so to speak. They don't speak for the majority of Americans, who are moderate, fair, good people.