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Strongly Discouraged...

Hndrx

Premium Member
Regarding my copy of Morals and Dogma that the SR owes me, I've decided to give them another call and see if I have better luck talking to someone else and if not I think I may get them to bring it to a stated meeting that I'll be able to attend in Nov or Dec. I'm still a little aggravated with them but I've calmed down some. :)

I finally talked them into mailing it to me and I sent them a check for the amount of postage needed to mail it.
 

drapetomaniac

Premium Member
Premium Member
I've found that, dues and price increases aside, most Masons will find the money (and the time, for that matter) to be active in those things that they find value in.

I agree. One difference is this is an initiation fee for something a Brother has no experience with yet...
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
...and suddenly the Scottish Rite was forced to deal with a new generation of masons who were coming to the Scottish Rite in smaller numbers, but with higher expectations. They were looking for MEANING in each of its degrees.

This is happening in blue lodge as well. It's amazing the interests some of the young fellows have.

We are going back to the full presentation of all degrees, in some cases over the course of months

Is there a valley within 2-3 hours of San Antonio that does this? I may well affiliate if there is. I see no sign of it in the monthly bulletin I get from my valley in California. We continue to do the same pattern of reunions lasting one or two weekends.

and following it up by providing the members with a framework to study and understand the degrees after they have received them.

Is that the Master Builder program mentioned in this thread? The SR degrees contain a ton of content.
 

chrmc

Registered User
Is there a valley within 2-3 hours of San Antonio that does this? I may well affiliate if there is. I see no sign of it in the monthly bulletin I get from my valley in California. We continue to do the same pattern of reunions lasting one or two weekends.

I know the Valley of Houston has a discussion group that meet at Holland lodge once a month where they discuss the degrees. Think they spend a session or more on each degree, and once they've been through all 32 of them, they start over.
 

Plustax

Registered User
My disappointment in the SR of Texas in the anount of dues that has drastically been increased. I moved my Blue Lodge membersip from GA to TX a few years ago since I now permanently live here (I was raised In GA while in Military). I now have a Endowed membership in my local Lodge. I also joined the Shrine here in Texas. I had also joined the Scottish Rite while stationed in Germany in 1988. This year the American Military Scottish Rite was dissolved and all it's members were transferred to the Washington DC SR body. We had a choice to remain there or transfer to another body. I checked in to transferring to the SR body in Dallas, Tx. I also asked what it would cost & was told it was something like 1000k + to transfer. I told the secy that I've been in SR for 25+ yrs and have only been paying $50 per year since 1988. He said things have changed and that was the new fee. Well.... I'vd decided to stay with the DC SR since their fee is no where near what TX charges. I believe TX SR is aboht to have a SERIOUS impact on membership. So.... I'm disappointed in SR of TX.... "Nuff Said"
 

chrmc

Registered User
My disappointment in the SR of Texas in the anount of dues that has drastically been increased. I moved my Blue Lodge membersip from GA to TX a few years ago since I now permanently live here (I was raised In GA while in Military). I now have a Endowed membership in my local Lodge. I also joined the Shrine here in Texas. I had also joined the Scottish Rite while stationed in Germany in 1988. This year the American Military Scottish Rite was dissolved and all it's members were transferred to the Washington DC SR body. We had a choice to remain there or transfer to another body. I checked in to transferring to the SR body in Dallas, Tx. I also asked what it would cost & was told it was something like 1000k + to transfer. I told the secy that I've been in SR for 25+ yrs and have only been paying $50 per year since 1988. He said things have changed and that was the new fee. Well.... I'vd decided to stay with the DC SR since their fee is no where near what TX charges. I believe TX SR is aboht to have a SERIOUS impact on membership. So.... I'm disappointed in SR of TX.... "Nuff Said"

I don't want to comment on whether or not 1,000 USD is high to move membership, but the fact that you expect the prices to remain the same since 1988 seems a little unrealistic to me. The fact of the matter is that inflation is going up, membership is going down and the temples aren't becoming any cheaper to maintain. Not saying that any masonic organization should skin their members to cover these costs, but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?
 

Mac

Moderator
Premium Member
...but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?
I don't mean this with regard to the SR specifically (I love the SR, in fact), but rather Masonry in general:

If we're going to pay, there had better be a decent product. ;)
 

Plustax

Registered User
I do understand about inflation & membership, but the flip side is that older members (not only in age, but long time members) don't have the same type of income as younger members. Fact is that none of this appears to matter only that more money is needed to maintain the same lifestyle of a masonic body (GL, SR, YR, Shrine). I don't know the solution only that new membership is costing more which may be OK as young new members make a higher salary as this is set acvording to these times. However that's for NEW membership, but what about those that are old members OR are reaching a FIXED income. How can they be expected to remain members? It's bad enough that seniors are having to make decisions between food, rent & medicine & now add to that rising membership dues? It's just going to be a difficult situation for many seniors some day. Again, I still understand about economic times changing, but I also see limited fixed income approaching for many. Also, it seems that times are not that hard for DC as their annual dues are $55 compared to those in Texas. I know... 2 different States, 2 different areas, etc.. I just still don't understand why a 25+ Yr member pays the same amount as a new incoming member. No matter... It is what it is. And the product has always been good and we are all paying fir it... just that some are paying more than others for the same, good product.

I don't want to comment on whether or not 1,000 USD is high to move membership, but the fact that you expect the prices to remain the same since 1988 seems a little unrealistic to me. The fact of the matter is that inflation is going up, membership is going down and the temples aren't becoming any cheaper to maintain. Not saying that any masonic organization should skin their members to cover these costs, but if you're getting a good product, why not pay for it?
 

MarkR

Premium Member
It is absolutely untrue that younger members have more disposable wealth than older members. In fact, demographics indicate that AS A GROUP, older men have more money than younger men. Even after I retire in the next couple of years, I'll be better off financially than many of the younger men in my Lodge, who have less income and have children to take care of. On top of which, my house is paid for, my cars are paid for, and I have no other significant debts.

My point is that a blanket rule of only raising dues on newer members, while exempting older ones, can be totally unfair and wrong. Fifty five dollars a year is incredibly low. That's barely over a dollar a week. We should be willing to pay more than we spend on coffee.
 
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Plustax

Registered User
It is absolutely untrue that younger members have more disposable wealth than older members. In fact, demographics indicate that AS A GROUP, older men have more money than younger men. Even after I retire in the next couple of years, I'll be better off financially than many of the younger men in my Lodge, who have less income and have children to take care of. On top of which, my house is paid for, my cars are paid for, and I have no other significant debts.

My point is that a blanket rule of only raising dues on newer members, while exempting older ones, can be totally unfair and wrong. Fifty five dollars a year is incredibly low. That's barely over a dollar a week. We should be willing to pay more than we spend on coffee.

We can agree to disagree & that's OK. Just as there may be many that are "better off" as seniors, there are probably just as many not in that GROUP. I guess it all depends on what side of the fence one stands or the demographics where one resides. I just think that there are many that can't afford it (whether a dollar a week or 50 cents a week) and will soon have to make tough decisions.
 

crono782

Premium Member
New member does not always equate young member. I attended the Dallas reunion recently and there was a guy who appeared in his late 70's-80's. If someone is having to choose between food, rent, and medicine, I would think membership dues in a fraternity should be the least of their worries. I'm always told that my and my family's well being comes first before Masonry. I suppose a small decrease could be given in dues just as in some Valleys, new members under 30 have lower petition fees, but nothing drastic. You get what you pay for IMO, if you like it contribute to its well being. If someone twice my age is twice as active and pays half the dues, is that fair?
 
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flaxgord

Registered User
All, I am in a lodge in the United Kingdom and our dues are considered low ( we pay £90.00 pa approx $140.00) most of us over here are willing to pay £5.00pw (£250.00 pa approx $380.00 pa). Maybe it's down to demographical and social trends and what you get in return. I was always under impression that the US lodges have very decorative/ornate lodges, which does you credit. I know we all are suffering in this austere time, but so is Freemasonry. Maybe there should be a national amount in the US of say $150.00, a national amount in the UK of £100.00 and so on.


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seanbenjamin

Registered User
I'm glad I read this thread. It makes me feel fortunate because our valley dues are nowhere near that. That said, yours includes some nice gifts.

Up here in the NMJ I enjoy the SR. Some of my close bros don't like it relative to YR.

If I could get them to go back to some of the old degrees I'd certainly pay more. The 4th degree up here is like a timeshare pitch or a flight orientation.


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scialytic

Premium Member
Texas is $500 for the conferring of the Degrees. That being said, I was able to receive ALL 29 Degrees during my Reunion. That is not the norm everywhere, but it is here. The Valley of Dallas confers the 4th - 32nd Degrees Spring and Fall; Terminal for Summer Reunion. For a full production theatre for all of that Light...way worth it! The main difference with Scottish Rite really comes down to the educational aspect. To say it is more scholarly than other Bodies would be unfair; but, I am finding way more to dig into than any other Body that I am in.

The other fact is that YR and SR are very similar in most all aspects. The main differences are in delivery and numbers. Each Valley is VERY large compared to any other Body, bar the Shriners, from what I've seen. If all of the Chapters in the Dallas area you'd need some bigger numbers to pay for everything too. Both YR and SR operate on mainly dues, now-a-days. At one point there were hundreds of Candidates for Reunions and Festivals...it's just not that way anymore.

The reality is: You either pay up front or throughout the year--nothings free. Any Brothers in Grotto want to chime in on that? From what I understand, you pay little up front, but to be an active member is pretty expensive. I'd say it's a wash between the two.

Dues are going up everywhere. If they aren't going up in your Lodge and you aren't merging with others...you are either doing something right--or totally wrong! It depends on the situation, but we need larger Lodges, bigger events, and more elaborate functions. Keeping Brothers active and potential Candidates interested is going to take more than an empty Lodge in a ricketty building isn't going to cut it for the incoming generations.

Sucks to come in when the cost just gets raised...but it has to happen sometime--it needs to be happening more frquently--and all over.
 
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