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Regarding PHA members

Nat Geo 357

Registered User
But above being PHA I am A Mason universal just like our charity should be. I have this conversation with friends often. If a brother Mason is displaying the Grand Hailing sign would you ask him what body he was in? No none of us would we would help our brother Mason like we are supposed to do. That is why I tell friends I would like to see a major change within the next ten years. One where we see each other as Masons The Measure Of The Man.


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Nat Geo 357

Registered User
PHA We should meet on the level and part on the square, but I know for a fact that many bodies will call another body bogus or clandestine with the quickness. But like I said earlier I have writings and texts from the late 1800s and early 1900s where they were calling PHA bogus and clandestine. So with that being said. Why do we continue to separate ourselves? When from day one of our journey we are taught about the universality of Freemasonry. Kinda weird to see your fellow lodge brothers say that in one breath then in the other breath they say don't share or communicate with other bodies. Just like when we raise Brothers why is it that other bodies are not allowed or encouraged to attend? More self imposed racism in my humble opinion.


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Jamarr/G\

Registered User
As I was told from many non-PHA masons. Its not the fact that we individually separate ourselves from other bodies. Its more about politics and how things were back in them days. I live in the south and this is very common here. I've spoke to many "non- PHA masons" and they have told me it's not a racial issue. Neither is it the fact that I was PHA. That's how there laws were created . that was how things were back then. Some Southern states have turned from that but many have not. I hail from TN and thankfully I have yet to run into an nonPH mason that didn't accept or respect me as a MM. Now I can't say that for other southern states but I thank God TN recognizes PHA!!! Personally I agree with you there shouldn't be no separation period!

If I come across a brother that was in need or distressed for any reason. Asking questions about what body he is apart of would not even be in thought. In my eyes a Mason is a mason whether he's black,white or purple.



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dew_time

Registered User
Another question I have been blessed to travel around the world and attend several Lodges and see many ceremonies. Who has the right or the knowledge to declare someone clandestine? Mason the measure of the man. /G\ Once the simple question is asked. Are you off or from? that normally ends all rhetoric. I have a very good friend who took the so called normal and recognized path. Then he was sent overseas and went to another body that some would consider clandestine. But the funny thing is his Masonic knowledge bloomed and progressed to great levels. So that's when I asked the question is the word Clandestine just a another way to promote Masonic Racism? In reality I have text from the late 1800s and early 1900s stating PHA as Clandestine. So with that being said who really has the power or knowledge to put that term on a Masonic body.? One thing I have learned in my journey through life is that successful people and groups never wait for someone to give them the right to exist and grow.


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The main lodge in england that gives every lodge around the world permission to operate as recognized masonic body has the right to determine a lodge to be clandestine based on the simple fact that they didn't petition for the right to become a legitimate masonic lodge...

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
 

dew_time

Registered User
PHA We should meet on the level and part on the square, but I know for a fact that many bodies will call another body bogus or clandestine with the quickness. But like I said earlier I have writings and texts from the late 1800s and early 1900s where they were calling PHA bogus and clandestine. So with that being said. Why do we continue to separate ourselves? When from day one of our journey we are taught about the universality of Freemasonry. Kinda weird to see your fellow lodge brothers say that in one breath then in the other breath they say don't share or communicate with other bodies. Just like when we raise Brothers why is it that other bodies are not allowed or encouraged to attend? More self imposed racism in my humble opinion.


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If it wasn't this way than a ton of non sanctioned lodges would be popping up with god only knows what kind of motives and that would be bad for masonry as a whole.. pha or "mainsteam" could possibly be given a bad rep and irreversable damages could be caused. Is that something you would like to see happen?

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
 

Nat Geo 357

Registered User
Who gives them the power or right to say who is legitimate Maybe that would have worked 200 plus years ago but today I don't see anyone waiting for England or anywhere else to say they or legit. Again Mason the measure of the man. England or any other country or person can tell a real traveling man if he is legit or not. But that is another key. Once The Master Mason comes to that conclusion his journey to the easy will make sense. When they say Look To The East you truly have to look eastward bound way past England and beyond. These are my words and my words only and my humble opinion. After traveling around the world I have met and greeted good Masons with enormous knowledge from many other countries then England.


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dew_time

Registered User
Who gives them the power or right to say who is legitimate Maybe that would have worked 200 plus years ago but today I don't see anyone waiting for England or anywhere else to say they or legit. Again Mason the measure of the man. England or any other country or person can tell a real traveling man if he is legit or not. But that is another key. Once The Master Mason comes to that conclusion his journey to the easy will make sense. When they say Look To The East you truly have to look eastward bound way past England and beyond. These are my words and my words only and my humble opinion. After traveling around the world I have met and greeted good Masons with enormous knowledge from many other countries then England.


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I see your point about the measure of a man however only a reconized body can grant the right to operate as a recognized masonic lodge. Obviously this point can go around and around and both of us would be making the same points all night. Look at it this way though, if you decided to start a us army battalion without permission from the us army do you think anyone in the real us army would be willing to recognize you? Yould your teachings be regulated? Would you expect to fight side by side with the 101st airbourne or would expect to be squashed by the US?

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
 

Nat Geo 357

Registered User
I agree we are at an variance and would go around all night, But that is the beauty of healthy conversation to share views. As far as the army situation we already have so called clandestine army units, fighting and living in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think we call them private contractors and in the Vietnam era they were called advisors. So that comparison is not a good one at all. But I do get your point.


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dew_time

Registered User
I agree we are at an variance and would go around all night, But that is the beauty of healthy conversation to share views. As far as the army situation we already have so called clandestine army units, fighting and living in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think we call them private contractors and in the Vietnam era they were called advisors. So that comparison is not a good one at all. But I do get your point.


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Yea.. I wasn't aware of the army situation. I have never been able to have conversations like this without it becoming heated or personal until I was introduced to masonry. No matter what our veiws on the situation, in the end we leave on the level... thank you brother!

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
 

Nat Geo 357

Registered User
You are so welcome brother, We do meet on the Level and part on the Square. Great conversation brother.


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MarkR

Premium Member
The main lodge in england that gives every lodge around the world permission to operate as recognized masonic body has the right to determine a lodge to be clandestine based on the simple fact that they didn't petition for the right to become a legitimate masonic lodge...

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
The United Grand Lodge of England does not have authority over any Lodges other than their own. There is a question of "legitimacy of origin," where a Grand Lodge must have been constituted by Lodges that can directly trace their lineage back to the Grand Lodge of England, Grand Lodge of Scotland, or Grand Lodge of Ireland, but that's not the same thing as UGLE giving lodges around the world "permission to operate." While Grand Lodges do tend to follow the lead of UGLE in recognition of jurisdictions, that is not absolute nor is it required.
 

dew_time

Registered User
The United Grand Lodge of England does not have authority over any Lodges other than their own. There is a question of "legitimacy of origin," where a Grand Lodge must have been constituted by Lodges that can directly trace their lineage back to the Grand Lodge of England, Grand Lodge of Scotland, or Grand Lodge of Ireland, but that's not the same thing as UGLE giving lodges around the world "permission to operate." While Grand Lodges do tend to follow the lead of UGLE in recognition of jurisdictions, that is not absolute nor is it required.

Thank you for passing on the knowledge. I did realize that what I said was indeed incorrect and in a post after this one I didn't repeat this. I did say a recognized body however I a new to al t hui is and wasn't even sureif that was correct. I know that in Ohio lodges have been formed by petitioning the grand lodge of ohio. My lodge was the mother lodge of two others way back when horses and buggies used to get the men to the meetings.

Doug Jewell
Entered Apprentice
Reynoldsburg #340
Ohio Grand Lodge of The F&AM
 

tldubb

Premium Member
Nat Geo where do you hail from? And what is your grandmother's name?


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Nat Geo 357

Registered User
I hail from Ohio I am Entered , Passed and Raised in the state of South Carolina. Are you Off or From?


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tldubb

Premium Member
Wrong answer no disrespect or rather not what is needed. God bless!

Bro.TL Wilson
Clarence C. Kittrell #149(PHA)
Philadelphia, PA
MWPHGL Jurisdiction of PA
4301 N. Broad st.
Phila., PA


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