My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

JohnnyFlotsam

Premium Member
Yes. It's a rhetorical question, but one that (it seems to me) clearly needs to be asked.

Recent discussions in another thread have made it clear to me (yet again) that a good many of our Brethren labor under the mistaken notion that the VSL (specifically, the KJV Bible) upon which they took their Obligation is to be used as the authority when judging the thoughts, words and deeds of a Brother Mason. I'd like to offer them the benefit of the doubt and simply attribute this to habit; "cultural inertia" if you will. After all, even today, for men brought up in certain communities that book's divine authority is simply "a given". But we are Masons, and as such we are taught to recognize that "divine authority" is not universal in it's form.

Or rather, we are supposed to be taught as much. The alarming frequency with which I hear Masons insist that their VSL is the moral authority for all Masons, however, makes it clear that we are doing a poor job of teaching on the matter or (and rather more chilling) that we are teaching a lie, actually advancing the notion that the KJV Bible legitimately is that authority. This saddens me, deeply.

A man's choice to recognize a spiritual authority by which he should govern his life is fundamental requirement to even be considered for Freemasonry. The importance of that recognition can not be overstated. It is repeated often in our lessons and ritual. That any thinking person, much less a Freemason, could then trivialize this relationship with the GAOTU by assuming that it's "one size fits all" is, frankly, astonishing in it's arrogance. I need scarcely add that such arrogance is at the heart of much of our world's troubles today, but the irony that, even in the face of almost daily examples of fear and intolerance, any Freemason could exhibit the same bias, is profound.

So, what do we do about this. What can we do about this?
 

Michael Hatley

Premium Member
For me, it doesn't matter. I actually almost asked to receive my obligations upon the Gitas, and only did not do so because they didn't have a copy and I didn't care enough about it to put them to the trouble. Plus I know the Bible, grew up studying and reading it, so it was just fine.

I consider them all equal and I wouldn't have been uncomfortable taking my obligations on any of them. But I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so not just Masonry, but my religion itself teaches equality and value for all of them. I consider them all "divine" in their own ways and yet don't figure any of them are to be taken literally line by line.
 

chrmc

Registered User
... is to be used as the authority when judging the thoughts, words and deeds of a Brother Mason...

I think the above part of your post is the problem and where most masons fail. See we are in fact NOT supposed to judge the thoughts, words or deeds of a brother mason. We are in fact supposed to do the complete opposite.
The VSL and the rest of the working tool are things that we should measure OURSELVES against, and use to make ourselves better. As you state we are all responsible for our own actions towards the GAOTU and he is the only one that should judge.
 

widows son

Premium Member
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

I happened to take my OB on the KJV, but like brother Hatley said I would of taken it on any spiritual authority.
 

Mason653

Registered User
I use bible verses to show others or brothers who use it as their personal beliefs that something's they say or do is contrary to the bible. There are a lot of those who say they understand it but don't live by it even when they believe it to be more than a book.

I would have love taking my OB on Crowley's book 4. ;-) lol or any other spiritual book myself.


/G\
FHC
357
FLT


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

widows son

Premium Member
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

Would Crowley's book be allowed to OB a candidate? I only say because its not his will that has been revealed to man.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Re: Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

Would Crowley's book be allowed to OB a candidate? I only say because its not his will that has been revealed to man.

Crowley's Thelema, as far as I know, does not admit to a Supreme Architect of the Universe as Freemasonry accepts such an Entity. The closest that Crowley has is the "Will", which is a separate thing for each person, none of them are Supreme in a universal sense.
 

widows son

Premium Member
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

"Crowley's Thelema, as far as I know, does not admit to a Supreme Architect of the Universe as Freemasonry accepts such an Entity. The closest that Crowley has is the "Will", which is a separate thing for each person, none of them are Supreme in a universal sense."

• Yeah, I knew it was something down those lines. I'm not a huge Crowley fan. I enjoy reading some of his philosophies, but he was
Something else. He owned a house in Italy where the most disgusting animalistic rituals were performed.
 

David Hill

Registered User
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

Widow's Son, I took my obligations on Crowley's Book of the Law. I often see many misconceptions about Thelemic doctrine, and I certainly admit that it can be confusing without in depth study. It most certainly is possible for a Thelemite to believe in one expression of deity. I'll be happy to provide examples of this via private message if you're interested.

Related, as someone who has studied Crowley, I find the assertion of animalistic rituals conducted at the Abby of Thelema to be offensive. Crowley received a great deal of negative press due to the yellow journalism of the time. These papers were more akin to the Weekly World News or the National Enquirer than reputable news organizations so he was greatly sensationalized. Crowley would be considered quite tame by today's standards, but late Victorian England was a very different and very uptight place.

As someone who is not Christian, I do find it disconcerting that many Masons appear to assume that the KSV Bible is everyone's VSL and sometimes judge them accordingly. One of the great landmarks of our fraternity is that of religious tolerance. Bringing men of most religions together is one of the things that I love about Masonry. We have a lot to learn from each other.
 

JohnnyFlotsam

Premium Member
Re: Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

As someone who is not Christian, I do find it disconcerting that many Masons appear to assume that the KSV Bible is everyone's VSL and sometimes judge them accordingly.

Exactly my point in starting this thread. But my questions remain (as yet) unanswered - Why is this happening? How is it that so many Masons could come to such a misunderstanding about something so fundamentally important to The Craft? What are we to do about this?
 

perryel

Registered User
...Interested to learn what "standards" are operating in Lodges where the majority of our Brothers are not Christian. Does the cultural ethos of the nation influence practice and/or assumptions in any way?


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

LittleHunter

Registered User
I was encouraged to choose my own VSL to take my obligations on. I almost chose the Tao Te Ching as it best illustrates my morals and values. However, being a Christian mystic i was satisfied to take them upon the same book The rest Of My Lodge Brothers took theirs upon. I hear that Rudyard Kipling took his obligations on a Stack Of 5 different scriptures


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

widows son

Premium Member
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

"Widow's Son, I took my obligations on Crowley's Book of the Law. I often see many misconceptions about Thelemic doctrine, and I certainly admit that it can be confusing without in depth study. It most certainly is possible for a Thelemite to believe in one expression of deity. I'll be happy to provide examples of this via private message if you're interested. "

• I had no idea that it was possible. And the only info that I have seen on Crowley is bits on Wikipedia, the documentary "Crowley" and the book "The Golden Dawn" by Israel Regardie. And I will PM you for more info. Thank you.

"Related, as someone who has studied Crowley, I find the assertion of animalistic rituals conducted at the Abby of Thelema to be offensive. Crowley received a great deal of negative press due to the yellow journalism of the time. These papers were more akin to the Weekly World News or the National Enquirer than reputable news organizations so he was greatly sensationalized. Crowley would be considered quite tame by today's standards, but late Victorian England was a very different and very uptight place. "

• I apologize if offense was taken brother. My source of info for that was the documentary "Crowley."

"As someone who is not Christian, I do find it disconcerting that many Masons appear to assume that the KSV Bible is everyone's VSL and sometimes judge them accordingly. One of the great landmarks of our fraternity is that of religious tolerance. Bringing men of most religions together is one of the things that I love about Masonry. We have a lot to learn from each other."

• believe me brother I have no disdain for anyone's beliefs. I am familiar with some of the
Teachings of the Golden Dawn, but I also know that Crowley broke away from it. Although I took my OB on the KJV, it is not my book of Law, but as I stated before any spiritual text would have been just fine. I'm not exactly where I fall in when it comes to a specific faith. I definitely believe in a Supreme Deity, but I read all teachings.
 

Mason653

Registered User
Re: Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

"Crowley's Thelema, as far as I know, does not admit to a Supreme Architect of the Universe as Freemasonry accepts such an Entity. The closest that Crowley has is the "Will", which is a separate thing for each person, none of them are Supreme in a universal sense."

• Yeah, I knew it was something down those lines. I'm not a huge Crowley fan. I enjoy reading some of his philosophies, but he was
Something else. He owned a house in Italy where the most disgusting animalistic rituals were performed.

yeah him and Obama used to worship satan and the illuminati in that same house. How? They have a weaponized time machine ready for deployment! Lol don't believe everything you read, or hear.

Not trying to be an ass. I'm just saying.


/G\
FHC
357
FLT


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

David Hill

Registered User
I suspect in Texas that most of the Brethren follow some form of Protestant Christianity. They likely grew up with the KJV Bible and most of the people they know are likely Christians. It probably does not even cross most folks minds that anyone would use anything other than the KSV Bible as their VSL. However, living in Texas as someone who is not Christian, it constantly amazes me how Christianity pervades almost every part of our society. It's taken as the measure of normal behavior and worship. I see other religions as being tolerated and often considered "odd" or "other." Masonry in particular bases its teachings around those found in the Bible, as well it should when you put Masonry in historical context. That leaves Masonry with a distinctly Christian flavor. Once again, I suspect that it probably just doesn't cross people's minds that any other VSL would be used except on the rarest of occasions. To be clear, I don't see that as being done out of malice; rather, it is likely due to inattention.
 

crono782

Premium Member
Personally I am Christian and grew up w/ the ol KJV, however I would like to see more of an, I dunno, I guess "discussion" or "option" for new brothers. Maybe I just haven't seen it in my lodge due to lack of necessity, but I've never even seen the topic of which VSL a new initiate prefers even brought up.


Freemason Connect Mobile
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Re: Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

Widow's Son, I took my obligations on Crowley's Book of the Law. I often see many misconceptions about Thelemic doctrine, and I certainly admit that it can be confusing without in depth study. It most certainly is possible for a Thelemite to believe in one expression of deity.

So, like Unitarian Universalism, it admits to Deism or Theism, just does not require it. My direct experience with Thelema has been with people who were either outright atheist (mechanistic/materialistic, "Will" is just a shorthand for an entirely materialistic process) or autolatory ("my will" = "Will" for the entire Universe) practitioners. Thanks for clearing that up.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
I suspect in Texas that most of the Brethren follow some form of Protestant Christianity. They likely grew up with the KJV Bible and most of the people they know are likely Christians.

For my own Church, the KJV is "acceptable". We don't have any specific "official" English version, although, there are several "acceptable" versions. As for Masonry being "left with" a distinctly Christian flavor, I'd respond that Freemasonry, as codified between the Moderns and the Antients, began with a distinctly Christian flavor and since matured into a far more eclectic outlook. This is not to say that "true Masonry" must be Christian, only that, like many sciences, the earlier models began with what was known and then admitted new things as more became learned.



It probably does not even cross most folks minds that anyone would use anything other than the KSV Bible as their VSL. However, living in Texas as someone who is not Christian, it constantly amazes me how Christianity pervades almost every part of our society. It's taken as the measure of normal behavior and worship. I see other religions as being tolerated and often considered "odd" or "other." Masonry in particular bases its teachings around those found in the Bible, as well it should when you put Masonry in historical context. That leaves Masonry with a distinctly Christian flavor. Once again, I suspect that it probably just doesn't cross people's minds that any other VSL would be used except on the rarest of occasions. To be clear, I don't see that as being done out of malice; rather, it is likely due to inattention.[/QUOTE]
 

OKGRSEC

Registered User
Whose Volume of Sacred Law "counts"?

It might help to read the ancient charges & Landmark 21st to better understand the "lean" toward Christianity. Granted, some GLs have different landmarks, but most adhere to these.
 
Top