Table Lodge Legislation

Shoot, we've got a battle to fight here in Texas in December about table lodges - hope everyone knows that there is a resolution on the table to ban them outright. But that is another story.

Click to expand...

This is sad and disturbing. Glad I'll be going to GL this year.

As far as revitalization goes, I agree with you about the approach but I'm curious if it's an uphill battle that'd best be focused towards our Blue Lodges as opposed to the Shrine at this juncture? The tail can't wag the dog, after all, and even if TO principles are effective (and I truly believe they are) the Shrine will still suffer if Blue Lodges aren't offering what people are looking for.

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

Michael Hatley said:

Shoot, we've got a battle to fight here in Texas in December about table lodges - hope everyone knows that there is a resolution on the table to ban them outright. But that is another story.

Click to expand...

When I read that my reaction was a string of "Navy technical terms". On TV the video shows my lips moving but in the audio track most of the words get bleeped out. The Table Lodge offers the best of what many brothers seek in Masonry. If you have never been to one you don't know what you are missing.

It would be worth it taking a day off and going to Waco just to vote against it. I'll speak on the topic as my Masonic Education presentation at this month's Stated meeting. Time to visit other lodges and offer them a Masonic Education talk again. Not that I've let up on doing that ...

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

Michael Hatley said:

Shoot, we've got a battle to fight here in Texas in December about table lodges - hope everyone knows that there is a resolution on the table to ban them outright. But that is another story.

Click to expand...

I don't know why I'm surprised...

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

trysquare said:

I don't know why I'm surprised...

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to reading this resolution as I'm very curious what justification they used.

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

Please keep me posted.

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

This (the table lodge resolution) needs to be put in a sticky on the front page so everyone can see and be made aware of it.

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

JJones said:

I'm looking forward to reading this resolution as I'm very curious what justification they used.

Click to expand...

Someone wants us to become one of those other orders that teaches you a salute then goes have dinner because that's all there is to the meaning.

Here's the unique bit about the Table Lodge ritual - It has talks by brothers on topics in the degrees. The talks are what that topic means to him. Ah, that meaning stuff, can't have any of that. It also has a free form talk that can be about any topic. I've presented on philosophy. Ah, that philosophy stuff, can't have any of that.

The lectures we now parrot are a sort of "greatest hits album" of talks given by brothers at Table Lodge.

There's also the fact that Table Lodge comes out of a tradition with alcoholic drinks. That's way too much like how core speculative Masonry was founded in the first place meeting in taverns. Ah, core Masonry, can't have that.

The young generation now becoming Masons itches for *meaning*. So what's the current trend? Suppress mechanisms that put back meaning. This isn't shooting ourselves in the foot, this is shooting the kids for asking questions.

One bit of comic relief exists here - Some "knife and fork Masons" have submitted legislation to disallow *meals*.

I need to visit more local lodges and present Masonic Education talks. This month my topic is what Table Lodge is about. Meeting in taverns talking about meaning.

Re: Shrine in Arkansas drops MM requirement

I'm going to bring this tidbit up at the next Agape... I'm sure it will generate a bit of discussion.

I began a new thread to continue this discussion without further hijacking the original discussion.

Michael Hatley said:

Shoot, we've got a battle to fight here in Texas in December about table lodges - hope everyone knows that there is a resolution on the table to ban them outright. But that is another story.

Click to expand...

JJones said:

Blue Lodges aren't offering what people are looking for.

Click to expand...

Brethren need to quit voting empty suits and hand shakers to the Grand South without any agenda. That's what is killing Freemasonry, at least when it comes to the Grand Lodge of Texas.

I won't even touch on the glorious 50's...lets go to 2002..

Grand Lodge of Texas Membership (2002): 112,977
Grand Lodge of Texas Membership (2010): 92,656
Net loss of 20,231 / 2540 a year

I'd love to know what our numbers are now.

Source: http://www.msana.com/msastats.asp

You know, looking at the link you provided, the 20's really stick out the most to me. 3 mil is a lot of masons when you consider the smaller populations of the time. Granted, it dwindled a good bit before the boom of the 50's and 60's but I still wonder what was so different in the early part of last century that's lacking today. Maybe we need to spend more time looking at the practices and attitudes our brethren had before the boom.

There are interesting parallels between the 1920's and the 1950's, as both were periods of great prosperity following major military conflicts in which millions of American men had been mobilized into service on behalf of their country. As we know, military service establishes strong fraternal bonds amongst those who served, so it wouldn't be a great stretch to conclude that many men who joined the craft in the 1920's and 1950's were looking to Freemasonry as a vehicle to further fulfill that spirit of fraternity that had been awakened in them by their military service. This can be taken further, as it is probably no coincidence one sees the resurgence of the craft and the rise of the golden age of American fraternalism in the decades of the late 1800's and early 1900's following that other great conflict in our nation's history, the American Civil War.

That resolution is a shame. The table lodges that've been to have been very inspirational, and frankly, they've been the best part of my blue lodge experience so far. I suspect that the resolution centers on the issue of alcohol. I'll read it and bring it up at my lodge at the next stated meeting.

Blake Bowden said:

Brethren need to quit voting empty suits and hand shakers to the Grand South without any agenda. That's what is killing Freemasonry, at least when it comes to the Grand Lodge of Texas.

I won't even touch on the glorious 50's...lets go to 2002..

Grand Lodge of Texas Membership (2002): 112,977
Grand Lodge of Texas Membership (2010): 92,656
Net loss of 20,231 / 2540 a year

I'd love to know what our numbers are now.

Source: http://www.msana.com/msastats.asp

Click to expand...

The statistics do look bad.

I am curious as to how ,much of that is tried directly to Death and how much is tied directly to the Economy... Only after you can factor those into the equation, then you will have a more accurate picture.

David Hill said:

That resolution is a shame. The table lodges that've been to have been very inspirational, and frankly, they've been the best part of my blue lodge experience so far. I suspect that the resolution centers on the issue of alcohol. I'll read it and bring it up at my lodge at the next stated meeting.

Click to expand...

It looks like the teetotalers are at it again. I guess they assume because they cannot circumscribe their desires, that no one else can.
If this Bull $hine passes, we will once again appear as backwards. I cannot believe that a tradition that is practiced world wide will be abolished here...
After all our fraternity met where? Absolutely, astonishing! hmy:

I haven't seen the wording of the Recommendation posted here, nor have I read it. But, from what I understand, all it recommends is a moratorium on "Table Lodges" until a Grand Lodge Committee can study them and make recommendations as to regulating them.

A "Table Lodge" is a tyled lodge meeting, duly and constitutionally opened, usually on the E.A. Degree (but sometimes on a higher degree), with the members seated at the table enjoying dinner. That is what a "Table Lodge" is. Every Masonic encyclopedist and reputable Masonic author who has written about "Table Lodges" over the past 200 years or more all agree on this basic definition.

So, a "Table Lodge" would have to either be conducted in the lodge room, or would have to get permission from the Grand Master to "move the charter," for the purpose of the meal, out to the lodge dining room, or to some other location, and the lodge charter, the three great lights, the lesser lights, the gavels, the wardens columns, etc., would all have to be present. And, the location of the Table Lodge would have to be in a room or place that could be adequately tiled. The meal, of course, would have to be for Masons only. And the Table Lodge would have to be opened and closed on the officially approved ritual of the Grand Lodge with jurisdiction over the Lodge conducting the Table Lodge.

A lodge dinner that is not conducted in a tiled room, or is not for Masons only, or is not opened using the official ritual approved by the Grand Lodge, etc. etc. etc., is simply NOT a "Table Lodge." A Lodge may have an annual dinner that it CALLS a "Table Lodge," and it may meet at some restaurant or hotel, and it may use some antiquated extinct 18th-century Table Lodge Ritual, and it may have toasts, etc. But that is not a "Table Lodge" by any recognized definition.

Therefore, the GM Recommendation, if it only refers to "Table Lodges," is directed at ... well, "Table Lodges," and "Table Lodges" only. If it passes, it will not have any effect on lodge banquets or dinners, whether they are held at the lodge building or elsewhere, if they are not "Table Lodge" meetings.

Is there anywhere this resolution can be read online?

As for a moratorium for review...why? Should lodges have to get permission to move their charter into their dining room? I'd hope there would be enough sense to insure your meeting is tiled regardless if it's in the lodge room or the dining area. It just sounds like more unnecessary legislation.

Some guidelines for usage of a table lodge would be fine, but otherwise if it isn't broke then don't fix it.

Ecossais said:

A "Table Lodge" is a tyled lodge meeting, duly and constitutionally opened, usually on the E.A. Degree (but sometimes on a higher degree), with the members seated at the table enjoying dinner. That is what a "Table Lodge" is. Every Masonic encyclopedist and reputable Masonic author who has written about "Table Lodges" over the past 200 years or more all agree on this basic definition.

So, a "Table Lodge" would have to either be conducted in the lodge room, or would have to get permission from the Grand Master to "move the charter," for the purpose of the meal, out to the lodge dining room, or to some other location, and the lodge charter, the three great lights, the lesser lights, the gavels, the wardens columns, etc., would all have to be present. And, the location of the Table Lodge would have to be in a room or place that could be adequately tiled. The meal, of course, would have to be for Masons only. And the Table Lodge would have to be opened and closed on the officially approved ritual of the Grand Lodge with jurisdiction over the Lodge conducting the Table Lodge.

Click to expand...

Well, this is not a description on any "table lodge" where I was a participant, neither domestic nor foreign. I'd like to see the actual submittal and the precise wording to ascertain the real purpose. But I'll still bet that the suspicions are related to my first comment. But I'll wait until then for further comment...

So, can someone post the various resolutions?

I have a PDF copy of the Illinois Table Lodge Ritual book that I will send if asked in PM. In Illinois the rules specify juice not alcohol for toasts.

For immediate access here is the Maine one. They allow wine but do not has specific points for talks - http://www.mainemason.org/resources/table.asp