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why are Catholics "excommunicated"

dfreybur

Premium Member
I don't see why the Church comes against a Fraternity of brothers who as charitous to mankind in the name of God as Masons are.:confused:

Human organizations suffer from human frailties. No matter how much authority a church asserts it can never be other than a human organization. We follow the divine and often do so through churches. If a church takes a stand against teaching brotherly love in doing so that church reveals just how much they have succumb to human frailty and diverged from following the divine - IMO.
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
These human "organisms" show up everywhere under the square. After all, it is a material world. Anything "man-made" is subject to misguided information and abuse. That includes the fraternity of freemasonry. However, neither the Christian nor the mason (Christian or other monotheistic brother) can let the human frailties of religion or masonry dissuade them from the purpose.

Remember, it's not mine or the next guy's relationship with the maker but your own that must stand the test of reason.
 

jmflores

Registered User
I am thinking about joining with or without permission. There is no unassailable reason why the church prohibits us from joining. Every reason I have come across thus far I can with my reason and experience can challenge and at length defeat those conclusions that the church has stated.

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Bro_Carl

Registered User
I am thinking about joining with or without permission. There is no unassailable reason why the church prohibits us from joining. Every reason I have come across thus far I can with my reason and experience can challenge and at length defeat those conclusions that the church has stated.

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I came to the same conclusion before i petitioned

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LittleHunter

Registered User
I was raised Catholic. I go to mass. I receive Communion. I do not ask permission from anyone. It is neither my Priest's nor the Pope's business what I do. I am accountable only to God. Men of the cloth have no moral authority over me.


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jmflores

Registered User
I wanted to speak to archbishop but got to speak to auxiliary bishop who said no because the Masonic lodges here in the US are associated with the anti-clerical anti-catholic Masonic lodges elsewhere in the world like in Mexico and France.

Even though I stated that the previous and retired archbishop said in a letter to the Texas research lodge that Freemasonry in the US is not anti catholic. And as far as he knew that men joined mostly for social reasons, also adding that in Texas the church and Freemasonry have co-existed in harmony.

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jmflores

Registered User
It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Follow your heart


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Thank you for your input, I will follow my heart and petition, I have been wanting to go to a Lodge and start the process and meet the brothers but I get a little nervous. :eek:

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LittleHunter

Registered User
I was nervous when I first started looking for a Lodge. I was recently raised and I've made great friends. I'm so happy I've chosen this path; it's helped me grow a lot


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FlBrother324

Registered User
The Revised Code of Canon Law (Church Law) published during the reign of John Paul II in 1983 was rather ambiguous about Masonic membership (and the Commentary made it seem like if Masonic organizations did not plot against the Church, Catholics could join).

In 1983, shortly after the publication of new Code of Canon Law, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF -- headed by then Cardinal Joesph Ratzinger,now Pope Benedict XVI) issued a document that stopped short of excommunication but did declare that Catholics who are Freemasons are in a state of "grave sin and my not receive communion." Here is that document. In 1985, and article appeared in the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano that further clarified the stance of the CDF, and hence the Catholic Church, against Freemasonry. Here is that article In the article, there is a notable shift in teaching away from "plotting against the Church" to opposing Freemasonry on the grounds that it promotes religious relativism, naturalistic religion, etc.

That being said, the penalty for belonging to the Masonic Lodge for a Catholic is no different than for a Catholic who uses artificial birth control.

Plustax, I am not sure why your friend had to wait 6 months to get back into the Church. I've NEVER heard of that happening unless an annulment was involved and your friend had re-married before the annulment came through. I was raised Catholic, spent two years in a Benedictine monastery, and have studied Catholic theology extensively (I have a Master's degree in Philosophy from the Univ. of St. Thomas in Houston). I am currently an unaffiliated Mason, but am working on changing that (dimitted in 2004 for a variety of reasons, but being Catholic was not one of them).

If their reasoning is because Masonry is a religion in the eyes of the "church", and therefore contrary to its' doctrines of faith, any man that is a practicing Mason is living in "mortal sin". Then they need to use that same argument for any man that actively participates with such organizations as, YMCA, and SALVATION ARMY just to name a couple.

YMCA established in England in 1844 by George Williams (Knighted by Queen Victoria 1855) under the Church of England. The same "church" founded by excommunicated King Henry VIII a dissident of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Salvation Army, an Evangelical society established by William Booth (also considered a dissident of the Church of England), had its' origins in 1874 when they were known as the "Hallelujah Army". Later penned (1878) by "General" Booth as the "Salvation Army" was known for converting the dregs of society into practicing Christians under their religious organization.

Both of these Christian based groups accept men and women of any creed, into their ranks. Yet I don't see any Papal Decrees or Cardinal laws banning Roman Catholics from joining these religious organizations.

Note, that both of these organizations were rejected by the people and "established churches" at their inception as contrary to church doctrine.

As I stated in previous post, I am a lifelong Roman Catholic, and a lifelong Mason, and if being a Mason is wrong, then I don't want to be right. Masonry neither conflicts with, nor admonishes me to violate any part of my faith. In fact it has strengthened those teachings and beliefs I learned growing up from both the Church and my Parents.


May you be blessed with a glorious day!

Yours, in His service.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Actually, the Salvation Army is explicitly a church and has always presented itself as such, or at least it used to.
 

FlBrother324

Registered User
Actually, the Salvation Army is explicitly a church and has always presented itself as such, or at least it used to.

Br. Maloney,
You are correct. It is, and has been since its' inception an Evangelical Church. Which was denounced by both the Roman Catholic, and Church of England, and most established churches and the majority of people through its' beginnings. They were even faced with angry mobs when they tried to minister to those not deemed "worthy" to attend church. My point being that many people from many creeds volunteer and are associated with them today. Why are Brothers and any practicing Catholic not threatened by the Vatican for their affiliation.

In my humble opinion, I see no difference, except Masonry is not a religious organization. The only religious requirement to be a Mason is, we must profess to believe in a Higher and Holier being, "God", or whatever the Brother considers his creator to be. We can't be an Atheist.




May you be blessed with a glorious day!

Yours, in His service.
 

j_gimpy

Registered User
If Catholics are excommunicated or been masons, why then was Adam Weishaupt allowed to remain a Jesuit?


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He was not a Jesuit, he merely had a Jesuit education.



Master Mason
Phoenix Lodge #154
Sumner, Washington
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I'd be interested to know the source material for the claim he was ordained a priest. As for the Latin word "lucifer," it existed prior to the formation of the Society of Jesus, as did the Latin language in general.
As many alumni of catholic schooling can attest, it is common to go to a Jesuit school without being a Jesuit.
 
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