Are long form degree lectures worth it?

There are Brothers that have been sitting on the side lines for years and have never "heard" any of the lectures.
IMO, it is not all necessarily about the candidate.

True but the degree nights are for the candidates first and foremost. If you think long form is too much info then I understand. I would say if you don't feel that way though then don't shortchange the candidate on the account if a vocal minority.

JJones said:

True but the degree nights are for the candidates first and foremost. If you think long form is too much info then I understand. I would say if you don't feel that way though then don't shortchange the candidate on the account if a vocal minority.

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I hear ya. It's a fine line between "is the long form good for them to hear or lost on them completely?" I think it's somewhere in the middle and depends on many factors.
Honestly, I feel like quite a bit of my ritual zeal has been deflated recently by a lot of poo-pooing at the thought of a better candidate experience vs expediency and convenience. And if the (more seasoned) vocal minority wants multiple short, sweet, and expedited degrees on the same night, then how can I argue?

My thought is that if you don't use it, you will lose it. I think that it's great that you took the time to commit it to memory because not many know the long form. I'm trying to remember the last time I heard one was many, many years ago. Here's a thought, ask the Worshipful Master to have a called meeting opened on the E.A. Degree for the purpose of you giving the long form lecture and invite the area lodges to bring their E.A's and let everyone enjoy the lecture, perhaps this could be done quarterly so you don't get burned out and you don't burn the members out.

otherstar said:

(though I've NEVER known anyone who gives the full form of the FC lecture in Texas)

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There a Resolution this year to allow the staircase lecture be delivered walking the way it's experienced by candidates in all the other jurisdictions I've seen second degrees. It's still to be delivered by the WM instead of the SD but degree team pro tem replacements are common in all degree positions anyways.

If you're ever seen the staircase lecture delivering with advances between topics you likely ended up preferring it that way. While I spaced out on the first and third degree lectures after my degrees, I managed to remain much from the staircase lecture because it was presented in bite sized pieces. A paragraph at one topic. An advance of a few steps. A paragraph at the next topic. Another advance of a few steps.

Honestly, I feel like quite a bit of my ritual zeal has been deflated recently by a lot of poo-pooing at the thought of a better candidate experience vs expediency and convenience. And if the (more seasoned) vocal minority wants multiple short, sweet, and expedited degrees on the same night, then how can I argue?

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I've felt this way multiple times at my lodge as well but in the end it's something I'm passionate about. Quality over quantity flies in the face of the culture of many lodges so it's an uphill battle but I think it's one that's well worth it.

dfreybur said:

There a Resolution this year to allow the staircase lecture be delivered walking the way it's experienced by candidates in all the other jurisdictions I've seen second degrees.

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If you are referring to GLoTX Resolution #16, if adopted as written, it would apply to the MM degree only, NOT the FC degree.

Bill_Lins77488 said:

If you are referring to GLoTX Resolution #16, if adopted as written, it would apply to the MM degree only, NOT the FC degree.

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So it is. The Texas move of the staircase lecture from the SD advancing along the north to the WM standing in the east is one of those neat ritual details from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Interesting that a walking lecture would end up happening in a different degree if the lodge so chooses.

Something I'm puzzled about - I've never heard of any stage directions for any of the lectures other than for the staircase lecture presented by the SD in those jurisdictions that do their second degrees that way. As such I believe walking around while giving one is not a change in ritual and thus doesn't need permission of this sort. I get that permission needs to be forced when a decision has been issued about it like with Recommendation #2 which indirectly attacks CofR. Has there ever been a decision against walking around during a lecture? I only know of one brother who walks around while presently one lecture and he isn't in Texas.

A number of jurisdictions use the "Paul Revere" charge to the lodge during installation. I heard it during a Texas installation recently so Texas is one of them. One of my favorite installing officers walks around the lodge while reciting the Paul Revere charge. He speaks to specific people as the lecture progresses. It's a very effective delivery method. No one has ever objected to his delivering that particular lecture like that. He's in a different state so different rules and all that ...

Table Lodge presentations are not lectures. It states that in the ritual booklets I've seen for Table Lodge. A number of presenters do walk around while giving Table Lodge responses and discourses. I'm one of the walking presenters. The only time I've walked during a lecture recitation is for the staircase lecture as SD, though.

I walk around the lodge with whomever is receiving the lecture in both the EA and MM lectures as well as the FC. I find that it seems to keep the recipient more focused and myself as well.

Sometimes another lecturer and myself will split the MM lecture into 2 parts, just for the sake of doing something different. Doing things a little differently seems to entertain the sideliners too.

Our lecture run from about 25 to 35 minutes long. This is without the optional or monitorial parts of the lectures which are seldom included.

Zack said:

I walk around the lodge with whomever is receiving the lecture in both the EA and MM lectures as well as the FC. I find that it seems to keep the recipient more focused and myself as well.

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Nice! Moving around definitely worked for me when I was a second degree candidate. I retained a fair amount of the 3/5/7 material. Then I stood facing the east and spaced out on the FC jewels and such. Yet that lecture is my favorite once I learned it. Most of it is moved to the long form in Texas so it's almost never presented here.

Sometimes another lecturer and myself will split the MM lecture into 2 parts, just for the sake of doing something different.

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Illinois splits the 1st and 3rd degree lectures up into different parts often given by different brothers. I figure that was the intent.

To me the lectures are for the side liners and that means long form might for the side liners. If the side liners like the long form then it's a good idea. if they don't, occasional only. But who are the lectures about? I can view them as being about the lecturer. The degree is always about the candidate, but to me that isn't about all of it.

dfreybur said:

Has there ever been a decision against walking around during a lecture? I only know of one brother who walks around while presently one lecture and he isn't in Texas.

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By GL Law, the Committee on Work has total control over ritual, including floorwork. They have directed that all parts of all 3 lectures are to be given from the East. "Walking" lectures, charges, and the like are not allowed.

Wow... I've never seen a Staircase lecture given without walking the "steps." Sounds incomplete.

In Texas work, the SD walks the staircase with the candidate near the end of the first section of the degree. The staircase is then explained during the lecture from the East.

Ah. In NM, the SD explains the steps, then they walk them together, in three sections(3,5,7). The Wages and G are given in the East.

Bill_Lins77488 said:

In Texas work, the SD walks the staircase with the candidate near the end of the first section of the degree. The staircase is then explained during the lecture from the East.

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The first time I attended a Texas 2nd degree I sat there with my mouth hanging open. They deleted that entire lecture? Then the staircase lecture was delivered from the east. Abbreviated compared to the versions I've learned but not deleted. Then it finished and I expected the lecture to move on to the Master's part. Nope. Not there. When I asked that part had been made Monitorial so it's in the long form that rarely gets recited. Not deleted but moved.

Just another ritual variation jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Note to self - Now that I've paid my dues and such I should purchase a Texas Monitor and whatever other books offered by the Gr Sec office.

Bill_Lins77488 said:

By GL Law, the Committee on Work has total control over ritual, including floorwork. They have directed that all parts of all 3 lectures are to be given from the East. "Walking" lectures, charges, and the like are not allowed.

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This is the first jurisdiction I've heard of them dictating lectures be delivered from the east but so few brothers do anything else it's likely just never come up in many jurisdictions. The Committee gets to make such decisions. We do our degrees according to their instruction (with our usual percentage of mistakes). Agreeing with their decisions isn't something required of us but that's a different matter. Being able to walk around during a lecture isn't something I would have ever bothered to inquire about. Looks like the author of that Resolution feels otherwise. Based on this discussion I like it but don't consider it a big deal one way or the other.