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What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

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Zack

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I wonder if the Fraternity take up % rate today is the same when you compare the population % rates of today and yesteryear.. Just wondering!

I read somewhere that the % are about the same. I'll try to find it.
I think all this worry about numbers is a "tempest in a teapot". The explosion of members after WW2 did Freemasonry no favors. It is the chasing of numbers that has got us where we are. Masonry was never intended to be for every man. IMO,
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Current US population is 317,237,657 (Source US Census bureau). The US population is increasing. And it has been increasing since 1959. (even before then)

The numbers of US Masons has been decreasing since 1959 (Peak year).

If you can view this data, and infer that the percentage of the US population who are masons then and now, is the same, then you are wrong.
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I am talking about % rate increase bed % rate of death due to historic figures. I'm not trying to say that anyone is "wrong" just trying to look at the millions of possible causes of your concern and there is so many. Not just Technology.
 

JohnnyFlotsam

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

While neither I nor Doug have those numbers, I'd be willing to bet that nation-wide we are seeing more new members than previous years.
I'd agree, but the part you're leaving out is the even higher numbers of attrition. It is highly variable, from state to state, but overall, the membership is still in decline.
 

Zack

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Current US population is 317,237,657 (Source US Census bureau). The US population is increasing. And it has been increasing since 1959. (even before then)

The numbers of US Masons has been decreasing since 1959 (Peak year).

If you can view this data, and infer that the percentage of the US population who are masons then and now, is the same, then you are wrong.

I wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make. I'll try it again.
The percentage of the population that were Masons prior to the great influx of members post WW2 is about the same as todays percentage.

I don't believe Masonry was ever intended to become what it has become; grandiose buildings, a bloated bureauocracy, and public charities that are harder and harder to sustain.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

You can get the numbers of Masons since about 1922 from the MSANA website. You can get the US population numbers, from the US Census Bureau (my former employer) at their website.

I tend to agree, that if the men who set up the first Grand Lodge in 1717, could see modern, 21st Century Freemasonry, they would not recognize it.

I do not see this as a problem. Masonry is a "work in progress", since we are not a religion, we change and adapt to the realities of the world, and the demographics.
 

Zack

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I do not see this as a problem. Masonry is a "work in progress", since we are not a religion, we change and adapt to the realities of the world, and the demographics.

If you don't see this as the problem then, poof!, there is no problem.
If we can adapt to the realities then perhaps the reality is, that we go back to what Freemasonry, imo, was meant to be.
Bigger is not necessarily better and Less is sometime more.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Let me clarify my antecedents. You said " I don't believe Masonry was ever intended to become what it has become; grandiose buildings, a bloated bureauocracy, and public charities that are harder and harder to sustain. " (end)

I tend to agree that the statements made in this quote are probably correct. No one at the Goose and Gridiron tavern in 1717, could have envisioned the George Washington national Masonic Memorial in Alexandria VA. They would never have envisioned the various Grand Lodge offices in the USA, and they would never have conceived such charitable and humanitarian activities as the Shriner's hospitals for crippled and burned children.

The fact that these things were inconceivable in 1717, are (to me) not a problem.

Are you advocating that USA Freemasonry abandon the George Washington national Masonic memorial? And the fabulous buildings like the Philadephia masonic temple?

Should we eliminate our Grand Lodges? And close down the hospitals? how about terminating all of the scholarships that enable deserving students to attend college?

How about closing down the 100 speech and language disorder clinics, run by the Scottish Rite (SJ)?

Shut down the Grotto's program for dentistry for handicapped children?

Stop the York Rite from sending deserving Christian pastors to Israel for all-expenses paid trips?

Eliminate all of the charities supported by Freemasonry and the appendant bodies?

Do you really think that Masonry can go back to being a "gentleman's club" , and not being the fabulous fraternity it is today?
 

Zack

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Let me clarify my antecedents. You said " I don't believe Masonry was ever intended to become what it has become; grandiose buildings, a bloated bureauocracy, and public charities that are harder and harder to sustain. " (end)

I tend to agree that the statements made in this quote are probably correct. No one at the Goose and Gridiron tavern in 1717, could have envisioned the George Washington national Masonic Memorial in Alexandria VA. They would never have envisioned the various Grand Lodge offices in the USA, and they would never have conceived such charitable and humanitarian activities as the Shriner's hospitals for crippled and burned children.

The fact that these things were inconceivable in 1717, are (to me) not a problem.

Are you advocating that USA Freemasonry abandon the George Washington national Masonic memorial? And the fabulous buildings like the Philadephia masonic temple?

Should we eliminate our Grand Lodges? And close down the hospitals? how about terminating all of the scholarships that enable deserving students to attend college?

How about closing down the 100 speech and language disorder clinics, run by the Scottish Rite (SJ)?

Shut down the Grotto's program for dentistry for handicapped children?

Stop the York Rite from sending deserving Christian pastors to Israel for all-expenses paid trips?

Eliminate all of the charities supported by Freemasonry and the appendant bodies?

Do you really think that Masonry can go back to being a "gentleman's club" , and not being the fabulous fraternity it is today?

I am not advocating any of those things. The point you seem to miss is, all the things you mentioned above were not what Masonry was originally about. But because of those things membership numbers are important(to some) in order to keep financing these things. They will go away eventually because the numbers will not support them. Charity was not the only reason some of these things came about. Some of it was to curry favor with the public, particularly after the Morgan affair.

And if Masonry is the "fabulous fraternity", why are you so dissatisfied with it?
I'm done. You and I have been down this road before and I don't intend to travel it again. Merry Christmas.
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Whats an interesting twist on the whole technology side of this discussion is in my local area there has been a massive move away from the church. Over the last 10 years, the church's in my area decided to push into the technology age by introducing all these wonderful gadgets. The push for "Service App's" on phone to high tech service publishing and live streaming. We have seen church's where 10 years ago had a regular attendance of 500 shrink to 75 because people didn't like the way that the focus of the service was taken off God and placed on gadgets. The church i use to attend every sunday went from 300 to 60 in just 5 years because they decided to focus on improving their technology.

We are a Brotherhood with core teachings and values - Society is evolving with a HUGE push to drop any core moral value and adapt new socially accepted practices. Masonry and its core teachings is not broken, society is and if you start changing too much internally, Masonry will then become very broken.

We can't just throw out the "dead wood" because they won't adapt to new technologies and to do so goes 100% against the grain and core roots of the Craft itself. I joined Masonry for what it stands for today and centuries before, a Brotherhood based on the 3 pillars and I may be new, but I'm pretty sure that those 3 pillars dont involve tossing out dead wood, but encouraging them to stay. They have a wealth of knowledge and experience to pass down to the younger generations as has Masonry since it began.

I am not against technology in Lodges and Grand Lodges, but the lack of is not the sole purpose of the decline in numbers.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

No one is advocating for changing core values.

Offering online dues payments, meeting minutes, a blog, website, and updated phone and email contact lists are things any Lodge can benefit from. Here in Ohio at least, every Lodge must maintain a website...but most of them are crap that serve no real purpose.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

No one is advocating for changing core values.

Offering online dues payments, meeting minutes, a blog, website, and updated phone and email contact lists are things any Lodge can benefit from. Here in Ohio at least, every Lodge must maintain a website...but most of them are crap that serve no real purpose.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App

I get that, but that's hardly going to "fix" anything.
 

Browncoat

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I get that, but that's hardly going to "fix" anything.

Technology would go a long way towards "fixing" a lot of issues that currently plague local Lodges and improve communication with their respective Grand Lodges.

Its pointless to list them all, because if you're unable to see it @ the 10,000ft level, details aren't going to help.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

I am not advocating any of those things. The point you seem to miss is, all the things you mentioned above were not what Masonry was originally about.

--I do not "miss" that at all. I know that when Speculative Masonry was organized in 1717, they had no idea of the Shriner's hospitals. The men who set up the first grand Lodge, would not recognize the various charitable and humanitarian activities underway today.



But because of those things membership numbers are important(to some) in order to keep financing these things.

Not necessarily. The Shriner's hospitals are financed through donations (from non-Masons), and from interest earned on securities. Although the charitable/humanitarian activities are operated by Masonic (and appendant) organizations, this does not mean that they are 100% financed by Masons.


They will go away eventually because the numbers will not support them.

Not necessarily. Alternative financing can be arranged for some of all of them. The Masonic home of Kentucky receives alternate financing from non-Masonic sources.



Charity was not the only reason some of these things came about.

Possibly. This is not a problem for me.

Some of it was to curry favor with the public, particularly after the Morgan affair.

And if Masonry is the "fabulous fraternity", why are you so dissatisfied with it?

I am NOT dissatisfied with Freemasonry. If I were dissatisfied, I would just ask for a demit, and walk away. I am concerned (justifiably) about the direction that Freemasonry ( and the appendants) is/are taking. When I joined the Shrine in 1989, there were 990,000 Shriners. Now there are less than 400,000 Shriners.

Freemasons have a choice. We can manage the changes that are underway (loss of membership, lodges closing). Or we can let the changes manage us.

Masonry is much different than when it was established in 1717. Masonic lodges now have indoor plumbing, carpeting, electric lights, and air conditioning. We picked up on technology, and our Masonic experience is improved and enhanced.





I'm done. You and I have been down this road before and I don't intend to travel it again. Merry Christmas.

If you do not wish to address the problems and challenges facing our Craft in the 21st Century, that is your privilege.

I personally, am delighted that Masons are facing up to the new realities which face our Craft.
 

K3vin

Registered User
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Reading through the comments in several threads, including this one, there is a recurring concern of declining membership.

I spent 10 years volunteering on several fire departments over the years and the lack of participation in many of those organizations has been becoming more of a challenge in recent years.

I would venture to say that the advent and use of technology in society has increased people's efficiency in scheduling activities, to the point that people no longer have "Extra Time" to participate in clubs, fraternities, and service organizations. While the total hours worked per person per week is similar to the last 50 years; more spouses are working, we are commuting further, and household duties have become shared responsibilities due to both spouses working. More and more, our time available for service to others has been eroded by these necessities of modern life. Those who do not make a conscious choice to make time for groups like ours see it as a superfluous expenditure of their already taxed schedules.

If we want more good men to join with us we will have to find ways to show the world we are worth their time.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

No one is advocating for changing core values.

Offering online dues payments, meeting minutes, a blog, website, and updated phone and email contact lists are things any Lodge can benefit from. Here in Ohio at least, every Lodge must maintain a website...but most of them are crap that serve no real purpose.

Sent From My Freemasonry Mobile App

I have said repeatedly, that we can make more efficient and proper use of technology, and still keep true to our ancient landmarks. No one is advocating an abandonment of our historical underpinnings.

The internet is just ideal for Freemasonry. BUT- Freemasonry needs to embrace the technology properly. Here is an excellent article (a few years old, but still relevant) http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2011/01/freemasonry-and-the-internet

It is not enough for a Grand Lodge to mandate that every lodge in its jurisdiction have a web site. The Grand Lodge needs to provide direction, and guidance on how to set it up properly. We will have to see a grand lodge officer of "Grand Webmaster", and the Grand Lodge needs to have a committee of internet-savvy volunteers, to advise and guide the subordinate lodges. Some lodge websites are terrific, some are mediocre, some are an embarrassment. I cringe when I visit a website and there is information that is two years old.
 

JJones

Moderator
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Reading through the comments in several threads, including this one, there is a recurring concern of declining membership.

I spent 10 years volunteering on several fire departments over the years and the lack of participation in many of those organizations has been becoming more of a challenge in recent years.

I would venture to say that the advent and use of technology in society has increased people's efficiency in scheduling activities, to the point that people no longer have "Extra Time" to participate in clubs, fraternities, and service organizations. While the total hours worked per person per week is similar to the last 50 years; more spouses are working, we are commuting further, and household duties have become shared responsibilities due to both spouses working. More and more, our time available for service to others has been eroded by these necessities of modern life. Those who do not make a conscious choice to make time for groups like ours see it as a superfluous expenditure of their already taxed schedules.

If we want more good men to join with us we will have to find ways to show the world we are worth their time.

I agree and disagree. People don't have any more or less time than they did several decades ago. I know here in rural Texas we once had farmers than tended the Earth from sunup to sundown but they still made it a priority to get to lodge. I don't think it's a matter of time so much as it is a matter of priorities. People who say they don't have time for lodge probably still find time to spend hours in front of the T.V. each week.

The part I really do agree with is that we have to look for ways to make visiting lodge worth each brother's time. I personally think having programs/speakers when possible is a great start. Better meals and actual masonic education (which is different from memorization) are things to consider as well.

Don't get me wrong, there's not a magic wand that works for every lodge but I think offering Freemasonry at meetings might be something new worth trying. :)
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Reading through the comments in several threads, including this one, there is a recurring concern of declining membership.

I spent 10 years volunteering on several fire departments over the years and the lack of participation in many of those organizations has been becoming more of a challenge in recent years.

I would venture to say that the advent and use of technology in society has increased people's efficiency in scheduling activities, to the point that people no longer have "Extra Time" to participate in clubs, fraternities, and service organizations. While the total hours worked per person per week is similar to the last 50 years; more spouses are working, we are commuting further, and household duties have become shared responsibilities due to both spouses working. More and more, our time available for service to others has been eroded by these necessities of modern life. Those who do not make a conscious choice to make time for groups like ours see it as a superfluous expenditure of their already taxed schedules.

If we want more good men to join with us we will have to find ways to show the world we are worth their time.

There is a great deal of truth expressed here by K3vin. With greater choices for leisure time, there is more demand for "quality' in our leisure and recreational activities.

I have said repeatedly, that Masonry must offer VALUE to the individual Mason. Most (not all) stated meetings are boring: Read the minutes, go over the bills, read the sick list, have some coffee, go home. Why should a young man spend several hours of his free time, when he can stay home and watch cable TV?

Our entire Masonic experience: meetings, degree work, charitable/humanitarian service, must offer VALUE to the individual man. Masonry needs to deliver a "product" to the Mason, that he will choose to participate in.

Technology is not a "cure-all", that will make Masonry exciting and valuable again. But we ignore the potential that internet, electronic payment of dues, electronic newsletters, etc. at our peril.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Whats an interesting twist on the whole technology side of this discussion is in my local area there has been a massive move away from the church. Over the last 10 years, the church's in my area decided to push into the technology age by introducing all these wonderful gadgets. The push for "Service App's" on phone to high tech service publishing and live streaming. We have seen church's where 10 years ago had a regular attendance of 500 shrink to 75 because people didn't like the way that the focus of the service was taken off God and placed on gadgets. The church i use to attend every sunday went from 300 to 60 in just 5 years because they decided to focus on improving their technology.

We are a Brotherhood with core teachings and values - Society is evolving with a HUGE push to drop any core moral value and adapt new socially accepted practices. Masonry and its core teachings is not broken, society is and if you start changing too much internally, Masonry will then become very broken.

We can't just throw out the "dead wood" because they won't adapt to new technologies and to do so goes 100% against the grain and core roots of the Craft itself. I joined Masonry for what it stands for today and centuries before, a Brotherhood based on the 3 pillars and I may be new, but I'm pretty sure that those 3 pillars dont involve tossing out dead wood, but encouraging them to stay. They have a wealth of knowledge and experience to pass down to the younger generations as has Masonry since it began.

I am not against technology in Lodges and Grand Lodges, but the lack of is not the sole purpose of the decline in numbers.

You cannot extrapolate the experiences of a religious institution, directly into Freemasonry. If a church loses membership over a period of years, there were possibly other contributing factors, besides the internet which contributed to the loss.

I attended a lodge in Arlington VA, which gained 17 (seventeen) new petitioners in one month, all due to their internet page. More and more, here in the USA, the first knock at the west gate, is an electronic knock. Many lodges, including Fredericksburg #4 (Where George Washington was made a Mason) have cancelled their print newsletters, and gone to 100% electronic news delivery.

Many churches in the USA are utilizing electronic technology in their administrative work. One church in Texas, installed ATM's in their church, so that members could contribute to the church using their credit cards. Contributions into the electronic collection plate, went up.
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
Re: What would you like to see changed in the Maso

Masonry is not about how many new members you can get signed up, it's keeping them and teaching them and that comes from mentors with personal friendships, not websites.
 
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