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Mormonism and Freemasonry
- Thread starter Blake Bowden
- Start date
Brother_Steve
Premium Member
I'm guessing it was the Morgan Affair that happened in 1826 that spurred the anti-masonic feelings with Smith?
dfreybur
Premium Member
Local fundamentalist clergy incited riots against the new religion. That has happened with a number of founders of new religions.
MarkR
Premium Member
Does North Carolina NOT allow Mormons to become Masons? In Minnesota, the only religious qualification is being able to answer yes to "Do you have a sincere belief and trust in God?" End of discussion.
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
If it doesn't, wouldn't that be in violation of the Ancient Landmarks?
Companion Joe
Premium Member
This is complete speculation, as I do not know the workings of the GL of NC but do know many NC Masons, but while I doubt it's written in stone, I suspect that many individual Lodges would reject a Mormon because of the whole polygamy thing. Yes, the practice is officially outlawed by the Mormon church, but it does pop up from time to time with a few extreme groups. I may be completely off base, but my guess is that's it.
Many Southern jurisdictions have some hard line Bible Belters as members. We have one member who has lived with a woman for years and years. They are a happy couple and "man and wife" in ever since of the word except having a piece of paper issued by the government that says they should pay joint taxes. In casual conversation, it was brought up one night that if certain people had known he wasn't legally married at the time of his ballot, he would have never gotten in. I was on an investigating committee not long ago where one of the other members asked the petitioner if he'd ever been drunk. Sex and drinking are big no-no's!
When I call their attention to the wages of a FC Mason, some old timers will say, "They just call it that. It wasn't alcoholic back then." Uhhhhh, right. :54:
Many Southern jurisdictions have some hard line Bible Belters as members. We have one member who has lived with a woman for years and years. They are a happy couple and "man and wife" in ever since of the word except having a piece of paper issued by the government that says they should pay joint taxes. In casual conversation, it was brought up one night that if certain people had known he wasn't legally married at the time of his ballot, he would have never gotten in. I was on an investigating committee not long ago where one of the other members asked the petitioner if he'd ever been drunk. Sex and drinking are big no-no's!
When I call their attention to the wages of a FC Mason, some old timers will say, "They just call it that. It wasn't alcoholic back then." Uhhhhh, right. :54:
rfuller
Premium Member
I would gently point out to that brother that there are too many verses in the old testament about drunkenness for wine to not be alcoholic. As an abstainer he would also be unlikely to understand the verses following the first miracle. Bringing out the best wine at the end of party is uncommon because it all starts to taste the same after you've had a few. And then there are those verses that specifically say "don't get drunk on wine" which would absolutely imply that it was an alcoholic beverage at the time of the first miracle. *sigh*
Well, I suppose we take all kinds, right?
At time Masons are our own worst enemies. We claim to not be a church or a religion (which is true) but then have issue with non-(insert anything different here) joining my lodge. I am in a Bible Belt lodge and would have no issue with a member of LDS joining my lodge.
Companion Joe
Premium Member
Don't even get me started on what they think if you play cards!
dfreybur
Premium Member
By the grace of God and two decades of time and effort on my part - I am now able to demit from any lodge I am a member of if I ever see a rejected ballot or a negative recommendation that I believe to be because of religious membership. On the one hand I've never seen it happen. On the other hand I'm pretty careful at vetting lodges that I affiliate with.
Before I petitioned it was a hard and fast requirement for me that Masonry actually lives up to its claims of freedom of religion. My lodges have never let me down on the issue. Not the 4 I am currently a member of. Not the 1 I demitted because I relocated out of their region and was not yet a life/endowed member. Not any that I have visited during a ballot.
I think brothers act more in line with our values than discussions like this suggest. How much this is because our investigation committees are not supposed to ask beyond "Do you believe in the existence of a supreme being" and thus generally don't know, I can't say. To me that's the primary value of our landmark against sectarian discussion. We often don't know and it can be decades before we learn a brother's faith of choice. By that time he's an old friend and any prejudice we hold falls down goes boom.
Companion Joe
Premium Member
Our petitions from the Grand Lodge ask: Are you a member of a church? _____. Give its name ___________. So, you would have that information when the petition is read in open Lodge. I don't think it would mater, but members would know.
In 20 years as a Mason, I can think of one petition where the guy wasn't Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, or Lutheran. This guy was Catholic. When the petition was read, someone asked if that wasn't a problem on the Catholic church's side. I said if it is, that's the church's problem, not ours.
In 20 years as a Mason, I can think of one petition where the guy wasn't Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, or Lutheran. This guy was Catholic. When the petition was read, someone asked if that wasn't a problem on the Catholic church's side. I said if it is, that's the church's problem, not ours.
jvarnell
Premium Member
It is my opion people tie the word religion to the dogma of a group of people. Freemasonary to me is a way for all of the religions of the world work together. You can believe the way you want as long as you believe in something. I believe the god of Christianity is the same as the Gods of all people and everyone wrote down what they saw. Everyone just did not observe the same thing. That is how I see it and you don't have to see it my way you just have to beleive in something.
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
That's a very common lie told by stridently anti-alcohol sects. Believing it relies, of course, on a great deal of ignorance. Within a single day, any "grape juice" that is not heavily pasteurized, micro-filtered or refrigerated WILL become alcoholic. "Grape juice" as a commodity did not exist until the 20th century. It just couldn't exist. However, the fact that they can be easily prove to be lying won't stop the sects from continuing to lie.
BryanMaloney
Premium Member
Wow. And they call themselves Freemasons? Let me guess, a Jew or Muslim wouldn't even get a copy of the petition?
JohnnyFlotsam
Premium Member
Uhm..., I don't believe that there is a Grand Lodge in the world that does not "allow Mormon's to be Masons". What an utterly absurd thing for someone claiming to be a Mason to object to.
Companion Joe
Premium Member
My usual reply is "you're right, it isn't like the wine today, it was probably a whole lot stronger!" Yes, grape juice or any other fruit can ferment. That's why yellow jackets are so mean during the summer time. They get to eating fermented apples and grapes that have fallen on the ground and get liquored up!
Companion Joe
Premium Member
Yes, we actually do call ourselves Freemasons and members of our Grand Lodge have been doing so 25 years longer than yours, a little more than 200 years to be exact. My personal lodge members have been calling themselves Masons for 213 years.
