AaronSawyer
Registered User
I do tend to agree that a single black ball gives far too much power to the individual at the expense of the fraternity.
That's the way it is here in Kentucky.In Oregon if only on black cube then the WM directs the SD to destroy the ballot and orders the lodge to vote again. If a black cube appears again then he announces the result.
If on the first vote 2 or more black cubes appear then thats it.
It is my understanding that a second vote may be taken but if a MM casts a black cube and reneggs his vote could become the subject of inquiry ONLY if he admits to it. It's pretty strict. If you cast a black cube, you'd better have a good reason for it.I doubt you will know who did it . But i guess if you know the person or they told you they were going to cast a black cube?
Better than that, one should have a conversation with the CI beforehand.I doubt you will know who did it . But i guess if you know the person or they told you they were going to cast a black cube?
I agree that bigger is not necessarily better, but I doubt the 3 ball vs 1 ball is an attempt to grow the fraternity. If the investigation committee is doing even half- assed job, even one black ball should be so rare as to have little if any impact on overall numbers
I'd also say that Jews and African Americans are welcome in our lodge and by law by our Grand Lodge.I agree that bigger is not necessarily better, but I doubt the 3 ball vs 1 ball is an attempt to grow the fraternity. If the investigation committee is doing even half- assed job, even one black ball should be so rare as to have little if any impact on overall numbers.
My jurisdiction has one ball, and it seems to work fine. However, I can see where a jurisdiction may be trying to prevent a lone racist in the lodge from vetoing any African American petitioners, or an antisemite keeping out any Jews. Whether or not that is a good solution, I can't say, but it seems a more likely explanation. As a method of increasing numbers, it is extremely inefficient.
I keep asking, what about the brother who knows something about the petitioner that he absolutely cannot discuss with anyone without bringing considerable embarrassment to himself or a loved one? What's the point of a secret ballot if one is required to reveal how he voted and why?Better than that, one should have a conversation with the CI beforehand.
Same here in Kentucky.I'd also say that Jews and African Americans are welcome in our lodge and by law by our Grand Lodge.
I agree. If it is something that I would consider too personal or too embarrassing to the prospective candidate I would keep it to myself and cast the black ball or cube.I keep asking, what about the brother who knows something about the petitioner that he absolutely cannot discuss with anyone without bringing considerable embarrassment to himself or a loved one? What's the point of a secret ballot if one is required to reveal how he voted and why?
That's kind of my point. Welcome by law, but the single black ball could be used as a veto that renders the law meaningless. It only takes a single bigot.I'd also say that Jews and African Americans are welcome in our lodge and by law by our Grand Lodge.
I can think of a number of situations where someone wrongs somebody else, and the victim is embarrassed that it happened. If you are a victim of a scam, physical or sexual assault. The person may have victimized someone you know, but that person doesn't want the information shared - unfortunately there can still be stigma associated with being a victim.Well if a brother knows something about the Petitioner that will bring embarassment to himself(the Brother), that to me means that he was involved in someway in that thing that he knows about. If he can be a mason, why cant the Petitioner?
I totally agree. We have the one black ball rule here in Kentucky and I am happy with it.I can think of a number of situations where someone wrongs somebody else, and the victim is embarrassed that it happened. If you are a victim of a scam, physical or sexual assault. The person may have victimized someone you know, but that person doesn't want the information shared - unfortunately there can still be stigma associated with being a victim.
You may also know the person to be a complete a-hole, liar, or what have you, but you know the person through something you want to keep private. Maybe through group therapy, or AA, or a local Dungeon and Dragons club.
Ideally, one should be able to completely trust the WM, or any other Mason, to keep your secrets (per their obligation), but Masons are people, and people make mistakes. In addition, even if you trust the WM to keep the secret, you may be afraid of being judged by the WM. Being a Mason or a WM does not cure us of all our biases and prejudices. There are things about myself and experiences I've had that I might not share.
. Being a Mason or a WM does not cure us of all our biases and prejudices. There are things about myself and experiences I've had that I might not share.
That's kind of my point. Welcome by law, but the single black ball could be used as a veto that renders the law meaningless. It only takes a single bigot.