If many or most young people demit, is it worth joining?

John Doe123 said:

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If on the other hand I am only going to be learning about viet nam, perhaps it is best to not join.

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This sorta jumped out at me. A Past Master of my Lodge is a Vietnam Vet, and he has taught me much about life, about being a good man. Vietnam doesn't really come up. And it really does sound like you are looking to join for the wrong reasons.
I have become a better businessman having become a Mason, but...I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Business isn't really discussed. I've improved in most areas of my life. It's what happens when you take it seriously.
You are free to join a more successful organization. No one is going to sell you on being a Freemason.
And, hate to say it; but going solely by what you've posted here, I don't think I'd want you in my Lodge.

I wrote these words somewhere else, but I will share them here now because they are germane.

The types of young men who join and leave or simply never join because they are looking for some material gain or prize are not the sort that make good Masons. You don't "win" anything by joining Freemasonry; it isn't a competition. What you do is gain perspective and the association of good people.

As for younger people joining ... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?" With Freemasonry - or any number of other such worthwhile organizations - you should ask "what can I contribute?" I think many might join Freemasonry because they have watched too many TV shows and believe they will get some kind of secret knowledge or preferment by becoming a Mason. When they realize the true gain from Freemasonry is knowledge about oneself and how to live your life as a good person and good citizen, they become disenfranchised. Despite what some nuts might think, special benefits for its members is not the purpose of Freemasonry. If you want to make business connections, join Rotary or Kiwanis. If you want special treatment just because you are a member, join a college Greek fraternity.

John Doe123 said:

Is this a legitimate reason to seek fellowship elsewhere? I don't want to step aboard a sinking ship. I only want to be on winning teams.

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I don't think you should seek membership. If what you are looking for is fellowship as the first and primary point and you're very concerned about being associated with something that is trendy, masonry is definitely not for you. There'll be much better organizations to socialize or further your career for that matter.

If you however want a fraternal organization that will make you a better man, then Masonry is a good choice. However from your post I don't think you're ready for what masonry has to offer presently and do not believe you'd enjoy it.

Hmm. I'm a Viet Nam vet, and I don't think I've ever talked about it in lodge. If I have, it's because I was asked.

We have about 140 due-paying members of the lodge. If you calculated the average age, it's probably fairly high. But a lot of them are men who haven't been to lodge in decades, some no longer even live in the area (retired to warmer climates) but maintain their membership in their "mother lodge." Of those who regularly attend lodge, only a few of us are over 60 years old. The officer line is all men in their 20's, 30's, and 40's.

So, looking at the average age of the lodge doesn't give an accurate picture of what goes on in lodge.

Companion Joe said:

As for younger people joining ... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?"

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OK, being young is generally a "me, me, me" time of life. However demographic research suggests that the millennial generation is more focused on values, family, and personal relationships than any generation since the 50's. For them life is about caring and having genuine, meaningful interactions with others. Advertisers, who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars studying millennial men, are creating ads that talk about respect, honor, and pride because their research indicates that these are the core values that appeal to them.

Baby Boomers grew up in the Hippie Generation that didn't care about Masonic values. The Gen X'ers were a generation dominated by despair. The Millennial Generation is the generation of Hope. These are young men who who actually believe they can make the world a better place. We have a responsibility to show them that Masonry can teach them the skills they need to accomplish that goal. It is OUR responsibility, not theirs. And if our ACTIONS do not demonstrate that Masonry is a valuable resource for improving the world, well, that is OUR failure as well.

We just initiated 4 18 year olds, a 30 something and an early 40 something with dispensation.

We are on track to make 10 master masons before the summer break and we still have enough in waiting to do another three degrees after the break if we can squeeze them out. The men petitioning the lodge are on average 20 ~ 40 years old.

Here is the kicker. You will eventually be that 60 year old that you are afraid of right now. Masonry will also teach you that this will come no matter what you do in life.

You may enjoy this article:

http://freemasoninformation.com/2009/06/there’s-a-hole-in-our-bucket/

(I used to work for the US Census Bureau, in statistical data collection and analysis).

Freemasonry experienced a huge "bump" in membership in the years following WW2, as has been discussed here.

In the 1950-1960-1970 decades, men found other leisure activities. Not only Masonry, but other clubs and fraternal organizations are experiencing a "graying" of their membership.

Of course, if your opinion of Freemasonry is favorable, then by all means, ask for a petition. If, after joining, you determine that it is not right for you, you are then free to demit (resign), and leave the organization.

If associating with men who are older than you are, presents a problem, then Freemasonry may prove a disappointment to you. Myself, I have met many fine men in this Craft, and I have always enjoyed the fraternity.

Thanks for the reference to the article abut the last century!

Grand lodge Freemasonry will have been been around for 3 centuries in 2017. That means there are 2 more centuries to take into account.

Before I petitioned I read a book that gave tabular data about membership in the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire for two and a half centuries. In addition to the up and down trend by generation in the 20th century it showed a century long up and down trend. There was a bottom in the 1840s anti-Masonic movement and a peak after the Civil War as well as the up and down swing of the 20th century.

When I looked at that data I realized that a century long swing in membership is twice the membership lifetime of men. I petitioned in 1993 and I estimated that 50 year members then had seen membership declining the entire time. First degree rates then total membership. But they are mortal men. The men who were old 50 years ago had seen the opposite and so on back to the beginning.

I predicted that I was taking my degrees near the bottom and that I would likely see rising degree rates and then eventually rising membership my entire Masonic life. Now 20 years in I have indeed seen rising degree rates the entire time. I've seen lodges fail for being unable to handle the large influx of petitioners. I've seen lodges go through drama for trying to absorb the large influx of petitioners. I've seen jurisdictions bottom out in total membership and start growing again.

I may only see one 50 year phase of a trend that lasts 100 years, but I'm a bookworm and amateur history buff. Just because I didn't see it myself, I see it in books.

Eventually I'll be one of the oldest members because I took my degrees near the bottom of the trend. Then the trend will reverse again. Just like it has in the previous centuries.

Ride that wave!

pointwithinacircle2 said:

OK, being young is generally a "me, me, me" time of life. However demographic research suggests that the millennial generation is more focused on values, family, and personal relationships than any generation since the 50's. For them life is about caring and having genuine, meaningful interactions with others. Advertisers, who have spent hundreds of millions of dollars studying millennial men, are creating ads that talk about respect, honor, and pride because their research indicates that these are the care values that appeal to them.

Baby Boomers grew up in the Hippie Generation that didn't care about Masonic values. The Gen X'ers were a generation dominated by despair. The Millennial Generation is the generation of Hope. These are young men who who actually believe they can make the world a better place. We have a responsibility to show them that Masonry can teach them the skills they need to accomplish that goal. It is OUR responsibility, not theirs. And if our ACTIONS do not demonstrate that Masonry is a valuable resource for improving the world, well, that is OUR failure as well.

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I certainly hope you are correct.

dfreybur said:

Thanks for the reference to the article abut the last century!

Grand lodge Freemasonry will have been been around for 3 centuries in 2017. That means there are 2 more centuries to take into account.

Before I petitioned I read a book that gave tabular data about membership in the Grand Lodge of New Hampshire for two and a half centuries. In addition to the up and down trend by generation in the 20th century it showed a century long up and down trend. There was a bottom in the 1840s anti-Masonic movement and a peak after the Civil War as well as the up and down swing of the 20th century.

When I looked at that data I realized that a century long swing in membership is twice the membership lifetime of men. I petitioned in 1993 and I estimated that 50 year members then had seen membership declining the entire time. First degree rates then total membership. But they are mortal men. The men who were old 50 years ago had seen the opposite and so on back to the beginning.

I predicted that I was taking my degrees near the bottom and that I would likely see rising degree rates and then eventually rising membership my entire Masonic life. Now 20 years in I have indeed seen rising degree rates the entire time. I've seen lodges fail for being unable to handle the large influx of petitioners. I've seen lodges go through drama for trying to absorb the large influx of petitioners. I've seen jurisdictions bottom out in total membership and start growing again.

I may only see one 50 year phase of a trend that lasts 100 years, but I'm a bookworm and amateur history buff. Just because I didn't see it myself, I see it in books.

Eventually I'll be one of the oldest members because I took my degrees near the bottom of the trend. Then the trend will reverse again. Just like it has in the previous centuries.

Ride that wave!

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We have raised 12 in the last year. Only two were over age 45. The youngest was four months removed from his 18th birthday and is most likely the youngest we will ever raise. He turned 18 in mid May, submitted his petition by the June stated meeting and got his degrees in July, August, and September.

dfreybur said:

Then the trend will reverse again. Just like it has in the previous centuries.

Ride that wave!

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This is really a better way of looking at it. When I was giving the declining stock analogy, I knew I wasn't being totally complete. I was being short. Really, you want to buy at the bottom and ride it to a peak, if you are trading. Ideally. To do that, you need to know why a stock is going down. You also need to compare it to other stocks/companies that went bankrupt to know why it is different from thos. I know the analogy is rotten, since this is totally different, but the common similarity is that if there is a decline and you aren't allowed to or can't know why, it is some sort of a caution signal. I've gotten some reasons here in the thread having to do with the baby boomers, but it isn't really explaining it, since the effect in lodges is magnified by some mysterious reason. I know why there was a decline in the 1830s. I know why there is a mini boom near 2010 (guess: some dan brown movies). I will need to buy a $25 book (author commented in above url) to learn more, I think. My guess is that something promoted masonry in the 1950s. Yes, it might have been talk inside of ?regiments? in WWII.

I think with the rise of the internet, there is a lot of blame placed upon masons. Regardless of how false it is, this is a deterrent since it means there are some people who will not like it that I know. Sort of like wearing a republican sticker on my shirt (if that is what I am). I couldn't afford to offend democrats. That is my best theory for the decline thus far. And my fear is that there is little masons can do to reverse this.

One bad sign is in response to my question someone mentioned the long history. I know there is a long history. That is the issue. You had great people. Now you may have less great people. Telling me you had great people 300 years ago is like telling me you have mediocre people now. The lists of living and famous masons seems to be getting shorter.

I noticed that some lodges have a broken website, or no website. It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent. If so, I have to respect that by not petitioning.

Perhaps that want me to think they are incompetent? Seems unlikely.

Another possibility would be that lodges want to be secret, but that is contradicted by all authoritative sources saying clearly that masonry is not a secret fraternity but a fraternity with secrets.

There was a comment that younger people do all the work. This is what I'd expect. Like any family. You pay your dues and prove yourself so that you can relax a bit when older. As it should be. I respect that.

QUOTE:

I noticed that some lodges have a broken website, or no website. It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent. If so, I have to respect that by not petitioning.

Perhaps that want me to think they are incompetent? Seems unlikely.

Another possibility would be that lodges want to be secret, but that is contradicted by all authoritative sources saying clearly that masonry is not a secret fraternity but a fraternity with secrets.

There was a comment that younger people do all the work. This is what I'd expect. Like any family. You pay your dues and prove yourself so that you can relax a bit when older. As it should be. I respect that. end QUOTE

Your observation about the quality/quantity of masonic websites, is exactly on point. Not all lodges (and Grand Lodges) have embraced the 'net with equal enthusiasm.

Lodge websites run the whole spectrum. Some are terrific, some are mediocre, some are awful, and many lodges have no internet presence at all! I visit a lot of websites, and I always cringe when I see a lodge advertising a fish-fry that occurred three years ago!

I encounter your experience often. A young man sees a documentary about Masonry on "Discovery" channel. Then he googles Freemasonry in his home town. There is no webpage, and he assumes that there is no lodge in his town, or that the lodge is not interested in new members.

(I am sending you a URL for a discussion, that I would like you to see. Some Masons actually are opposed to their lodge having any internet presence)

Your contention that Masonry is not secret, is quite correct. Masons wear rings, belt buckles, ballcaps, etc. Many states have an official Masonic license plate issued by their Dept of Motor Vehicles. Masonic buildings are clearly marked and visible. There are hundreds of books and internet sites, promoting the Craft. There are secrets, but very very few. I like to compare Masonry to a football team. Practice sessions are held in private, often under tight security. But the team takes the field on Sunday, on national television, and what they practiced in secret is broadcast to all the world. So it is in Masonry.

One minor nit to pick: Masonry is a non-profit organization. The huge majority of work is done by volunteers. In some lodges, the younger men are there for every event, and donating many man-hours of labor. In some lodges, the retired members have more free time, and they are in every event, also donating their time and labor. If you petition, and join our Craft you will see this.

Masonry did realize a huge "spike" in membership in the years following WW2. There were many contributing factors to this "boom". Returning veterans sought out the similar camaraderie that they experienced while in uniform. The rituals and brotherhood were enjoyed. And there were fewer leisure activities than there are today. You should take a look at the "Flintstones" cartoon show. Hanna and Barbera were Freemasons. and they patterned the "Water Buffalo Lodge", after Freemasonry.

The decline in membership in the 1960/1970 time frame, has several causative factors. More leisure activities, Cable TV, and most particularly a more mobile population.

Prior to WW2, most men would be born , be educated, and live in the same community where their fathers and grandfathers lived. WW2 scattered the male population all over the USA. The huge growth of Los Angeles, and other western cities, is the direct result of men being stationed in these western areas during the war.

Men used to join the same organizations that their fathers/grandfathers used to. No more.

The rise of social media, (and other factors) has reduced interest in social and fraternal organizations. Younger men have family and career commitments.

Maybe I am optimistic, but I feel that the current generation of young men may be seeking the camaraderie and fellowship that organizations like Freemasonry offer. The interest in the Dan Brown films/books, has had a positive effect.

It is an exciting time to be Mason!

The list of Masons who are famous, is long and distinguished.

See:

http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm

With the overall decline in our membership cohort, the number of famous masons will be less.

One of my favorite celebrity Masons, is the late Mel Blanc. He did the voices for the cartoons I enjoyed as a child (and still enjoy).

Another is the late Clerow "Flip" Wilson, a pioneer of television, he was the first black entertainer to host a national comedy/variety show. He created the unforgettable "Geraldine Jones".

[QUOTE="Companion Joe, post: 143188, member: 14089"
As for younger people joining ... Millennials are a "me, me, me" group who, when they consider joining something, ask "what can I get out of this?" With Freemasonry - or any number of other such worthwhile organizations - you should ask "what can I contribute?"[/QUOTE]
I think you might have missed the point here,"Freemasonry make good man better". It says nothing about a group but a people, so yes what can "I" get out of Freemasonry. I hope gain that knowledge through Freemasonry to make "me" the better person, that I (I, is again me) hope to become. But like every thing else after I gain the knowledge it is my duty to pass it on to the newer brothers.

John Doe123 said:

Thank you Morris for your reply. Well, both of these mutually exclusive questions are 100% true for me.

To break the tiebreaker I am here to learn. On the downside, the time investment and drawbacks in being a member are considerable. For one thing, it is very hard to know who I know is a Mason and two people must co-sign the petition. Another known downside is being hated by many conspiracy theorists. All these downsides make me question if it is worthwhile.

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Do not be concerned, that you do not have a long-term relationship with any Masons. Most men approach the fraternity "cold", without any close relationships with any Masons. If your opinion of Freemasonry is favorable, the lodge will assist you in locating a sponsor or sponsors. Some states do not require that you have any Masonic signers, only that you can provide the names/addresses of two people who know you, and can vouch for your character.

You need not be concerned about any conspiracy theorists. Fringe people are willing to believe anything, you should pay them no mind.

John Doe123 said:

Sure, of course.

There are certainly wealthy philanthropists who have extra time and money to help out people in need. If Masons fit into that category, I would probably only do them a disservice by joining, since my own resources are limited.

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Again, do not be concerned. Masonry is NOT a charitable organization. This may sound odd, considering the fact that Masonically-affiliated charities donate over $2.6 million dollars per day to various charitable causes.

Freemasonry is a fraternal organization, but it is more. It has been described as a "peculiar [unique] system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols". The Craft teaches many things. One thing you will hear is "Freemasonry makes good men, better". This is quite true.

I am hardly a man of means, and certainly no philanthropist. The primary donors of charitable funds, in the Masonic family of organizations, are the appendant bodies, like the Shrine.

I joined when I was in college, and I was not wealthy then, and I not wealthy now.

John Doe123 said:

I've gotten some reasons here in the thread having to do with the baby boomers, but it isn't really explaining it ...

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Sometimes the problem runs one way sometimes the other. Being a member of the workaholic non-joiner generation I'm willing to judge the majority of my generation - Most of us have no idea about life balance. I was that type of workaholic until I hit 35. The problem was with the general trend in that generation not with Masonry. Now the new generation knew up watching the workaholics of my generation and they are looking for life balance. So they are petitioning in droves. This time it's a generational trend that benefits Masonry. But consider - That workaholic attitude held up the economy of the entire world as the Soviet Union struggled then collapsed. Was it worth it to each of us individually to give our lives to work and end up seeing little return? Probably not. Was it worth it to the world that our workaholics made the economy continue through that gigantic cultural change? Definitely. Yet me got called the Me Generation. It's a mixed bag.

One bad sign is in response to my question someone mentioned the long history.

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Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Those who do learn from history are doomed to watch the rest repeat it.

You had great people. Now you may have less great people. Telling me you had great people 300 years ago is like telling me you have mediocre people now. The lists of living and famous masons seems to be getting shorter.

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Read Homer's Iliad and Odyssey again. Those books are 5000 yeas old and they report the same view of previous and current generations.

It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent.

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Or that they are low budget volunteer groups and as with every such group it takes vast membership and/or vast budget to have a good web site.

quote

It suggests to me that they either don't want new members or they are incompetent.

Or that they are low budget volunteer groups and as with every such group it takes vast membership and/or vast budget to have a good web site. end quote

Not all Masonic lodges are embracing the internet with equal enthusiasm. Some lodges have members who opposed to having any internet presence at all.

As an IT professional, I must disagree that it is beyond the reach of lodges to have an internet presence. You can get a Facebook page for free. There are many website providers who will cut a non-profit discount. And a lodge can sell ads on their website, and defray the cost.

IMHO- Any lodge that does not have some type of internet presence, is doing so of their own choosing.

Honestly, I think so many lodges don't have good websites (or any at all) is because they are made up of older members who don't appreciate the value of the internet. They aren't stupid or incompetent...but many of them have little or no experience with the internet. How can you appreciate the value of something you don't fully understand?

My old lodge had a website and a Facebook. My current lodge has one of the old broken websites and the majority of the members are older. I've come to lean towards the opinion that a Facebook page is more than adequate.