Incoming GM will not grant dispensation for more than 5

Companion Joe · Apr 10, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
I have mixed feelings about this issue. A Lodge that has 5 or 13 candidates is very fortunate and doing something right. I'll agree that individual initiation is best. But reality is, if you have several extra meetings a month many members may not be able to attend. My lodge has members who come from 50 to 60 miles away. (I'm about 40) The burden on family, time and even gas cost is a limiting factor. I favor some type of group initiation and feel we can teach good Masonry after the fact.

50-60 miles away? That's interesting. We have five in our county alone (population 65,00). A 60 mile radius would include almost 50 lodges. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. I'm just saying I find it interesting.

Rifleman1776 · Apr 11, 2015

My concern is declining membership, partly caused by complexity of ritual. At least 3/4 of my Lodge's membership is over age 75. Piling more work and travel on them will result in fewer attending meetings. Ad justments must be made before Freemasonry becomes an historical footnote.

Companion Joe · Apr 11, 2015

What adjustments do you want to make? Change the ritual? Dumb it down? To that I can not agree. If we change the ritual just to suit perspective members, then we don't need them. Men either want to be Masons, or they want to join the Kiwanis or Optimist.

Membership numbers do not concern me. I'd rather have a dozen good MASONS than I would 200 MEMBERS. The only people who should worry about membership numbers are those who have buildings they over built. Membership numbers from 1945 to about 1965 were an over inflated bubble. We need to look at membership numbers prior to WWI to gauge where the fraternity needs to be. Freemasonry (my lodge included) has brought in people in recent times that should have never been admitted. They don't fit the mold. They aren't bad people, but they aren't community leaders, either. Historically, that's what Masonry was, the community elite. I'd rather us get back to that than dumb it down just to bring in today's Twitter and Facebook generation. Do we want to change the ritual to 140 characters?

Rifleman1776 · Apr 12, 2015

Can't agree with your perspective. I have written two stories on this subject which were published in York Rite magazines some 20 years ago. They are not digitized, I'll have to retype and post here, if allowed, sometime. Without people you have nothing.

Companion Joe · Apr 12, 2015

Then we will cordially agree to disagree. I concur that without people you have nothing, but if you go radically changing what you have to suit people, then you no longer have Freemasonry. I would rather put an old friend out of its misery and preside over the funeral than see it wither into a shell of its former self and become no better than any other civic fraternity.

I am an English and history teacher by profession and nature. The only numbers that matter to me are dates. While the Freemasonry we practice is undoubtedly slightly different than that practiced by George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Joseph Warren, and the rest of the Founding Fathers, it hasn't wavered much. What makes Freemasonry great is that historical link to the past. Without it, we have nothing.

JJones · Apr 12, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
Can't agree with your perspective. I have written two stories on this subject which were published in York Rite magazines some 20 years ago. They are not digitized, I'll have to retype and post here, if allowed, sometime. Without people you have nothing.

I like to make informed decisions whenever I can, and to do so I feel it's best to understand both sides of the argument. I would love the opportunity to read both of your articles at some point.

Rifleman1776 · Apr 13, 2015

I truly believe changes need to be made at all levels to simplfy ritual and make it more meaningful to members. York Rite has hand movements and things whose meaning is long forgotten by most members. It became comical just trying to get through opening. The three degrees have some pointless rituals, especially when putting degrees. It should not take almost an hour just to open Lodge or Chapter. I'm not Scottish Rite so cannot speak for what happens there. I did speak to a SR group one time and I remember I had to wait outside for a long time before they went to rest to allow me in. Times have changed. It used to be that Lodge was a means of staying in touch with friends and neighbors, it was the social media. Today we don't need Lodge. Lodge needs us.

Zack · Apr 13, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
I truly believe changes need to be made at all levels to simplfy ritual and make it more meaningful to members. York Rite has hand movements and things whose meaning is long forgotten by most members. It became comical just trying to get through opening. The three degrees have some pointless rituals, especially when putting degrees. It should not take almost an hour just to open Lodge or Chapter. I'm not Scottish Rite so cannot speak for what happens there. I did speak to a SR group one time and I remember I had to wait outside for a long time before they went to rest to allow me in. Times have changed. It used to be that Lodge was a means of staying in touch with friends and neighbors, it was the social media. Today we don't need Lodge. Lodge needs us.

In YOUR opinion!

Companion Joe · Apr 13, 2015

The fact that it isn't dumbed down and simplified is what makes it meaningful. Complete the Companion Adept of the Temple program through the York Rite College. It's very deep and profound in terms of the meaning over ever aspect of YR Masonry.

As an instructor, I don't see where any movements have been forgotten by members. Every one of the signs, etc. come directly from the degrees. If the opening is comical, then that is on the individual chapter, it's members and High Priest, and your district deputy. There should be at least one school of instruction in your area each year to make sure everyone is proficient.

If an individual doesn't need Masonry, they are free to leave.

JJones · Apr 13, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
It used to be that Lodge was a means of staying in touch with friends and neighbors, it was the social media. Today we don't need Lodge. Lodge needs us.

If lodge was nothing more than a social club then I might...might be inclined to agree with you. I know personally that I wouldn't be the man that I am today if it wasn't for Freemasonry. It's lessons, rituals, and symbols have been an important part of my life for most of the decade that I've been a member.

I'm a young man (by masonic standards) and I needed Freemasonry. Facebook and lodge can't even be compared.

Glen Cook · Apr 13, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
I truly believe changes need to be made at all levels to simplfy ritual and make it more meaningful to members. York Rite has hand movements and things whose meaning is long forgotten by most members. It became comical just trying to get through opening. The three degrees have some pointless rituals, especially when putting degrees. It should not take almost an hour just to open Lodge or Chapter. I'm not Scottish Rite so cannot speak for what happens there. I did speak to a SR group one time and I remember I had to wait outside for a long time before they went to rest to allow me in. Times have changed. It used to be that Lodge was a means of staying in touch with friends and neighbors, it was the social media. Today we don't need Lodge. Lodge needs us.

Almost an hour to open? I'm hard pressed to accept that.

People don't know what the signs mean? They are taught in the degrees. Perhaps the Chapter isn't doing the correct degree work.

Pointless ritual in the symbolic degrees? I'm unaware of any, and am quite surprised at the notion.

KSigMason · Apr 13, 2015

More than 5 candidates? Why would you do so many at once?!

crono782 · Apr 13, 2015

Glen Cook said:
Almost an hour to open? I'm hard pressed to accept that.

Shoot, minus presentations, we can open, conduct basic business and close the Chapter in under an hour of need be.

pointwithinacircle2 · Apr 13, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
The three degrees have some pointless rituals, especially when putting degrees.

Does the sentence "Love doesn't have a point, it has meaning" make sense to you? If it does consider this sentence, "The degrees of Masonry don't have a point, they have meaning". If there are parts of the degree work that have no meaning for you, why is that?

Glen Cook · Apr 14, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
My concern is declining membership, partly caused by complexity of ritual. ..,,]

GAC: and yet, our greatest growth occurred using the same ritual.

Rifleman1776 · Apr 14, 2015

Zack said:
In YOUR opinion!

Yes, it is my opinion Masonic rituals need to change to meet today's situation.
It is fact, membership is declining and the purpose of Masonry has changed over the years.
Without change we will keep 100% of nothing. My state has many vacant lodge buildings and some more for sale.

crono782 · Apr 14, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
Yes, it is my opinion Masonic rituals need to change to meet today's situation.
It is fact, membership is declining and the purpose of Masonry has changed over the years.
Without change we will keep 100% of nothing. My state has many vacant lodge buildings and some more for sale.

Well as Batman said, "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
Sadly, I would rather see dwindling numbers than Freemasonry devolve into a shadow of its former self in order to "survive".

MRichard · Apr 14, 2015

Is the ritual the problem or is there some other reason(s) for the declining numbers? The ritual is the tie that bonds us. When you are first learning the work, it seems like a lot of information to learn. But then you realize that everyone else learned it the same way (depending on your jurisdiction of course), that teaches us that the work can be learned with time, hard work, & patience. I am not sure how much the ritual has changed over the years if any but the ritual is a constant.

I think the problem lies elsewhere. We can definitely take advantage of the internet to some degree and technology. Some lodges don't like to maintain a webpage. Maybe that is something that should be reconsidered if their numbers are low. Of course, there may be legitimate reasons for doing so as well. I think that having discussions such as this will eventually help the situation. There is probably not a quick fix otherwise, it would have happened already.

Glen Cook · Apr 14, 2015

Rifleman1776 said:
Yes, it is my opinion Masonic rituals need to change to meet today's situation.
It is fact, membership is declining and the purpose of Masonry has changed over the years.
Without change we will keep 100% of nothing. My state has many vacant lodge buildings and some more for sale.

What is the change in purposes you perceive!

David N. · Apr 14, 2015

Sure. Let's change the Ritual, lower our qualifications, and do away with coaching. Let's make it easier; that way it's meaningless, but we can let anyone join.
I actually advocate the opposite. Freemasons used to be the elite of the community. That's who I wanted to join. That's why I work so hard at it. I'm not concerned about keeping aging buildings. I'm concerned with meeting men I can trust.

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