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What would you like to see changed in the Masonic experience?

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cemab4y

Premium Member
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I am on point, and that point is that there are no appendant examples that you have offered that do the serious Work of Freemasonry, which, to be on point, is a change that I would like to see. Perhaps we could start with the lodges themselves. It sure would be an improvement over the currently offered business meetings.


None of the appendant/concordant bodies do the "serious work" as you call it. No one disputes that. You would be surprised how many Masons tell me that business meetings are BORING. Like the old joke: A man walked up to a Mason, and asked him. "What do you in those Masonic meetings?". And he replied "In the regular stated meetings, I usually sleep".

One change that I, and many others would like to see, is meetings which are interesting, informative, and offer value to the members. I would like to see most of the routine business conducted in executive session, with a report back to the members, and posted on line. No point in reading the water bill, electric bill, etc.

Each meeting should have a speaker, with some Masonic or non-Masonic topic. If no speaker is available, a Masonic video from YouTube, or some other instructional video could be shown.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
Citation please.

In the days of operative Masonry, the Masons ran a relief fund to assist distressed and worthy brother Masons, their widows and orphans. I suspect, that nearly all of the relief stayed within the Craft, and their dependents.

When Speculative Masonry started to take off in Europe, the Craft most certainly did not provide any humanitarian assistance outside of the Craft.

My own Grand Lodge operated a widows and orphan home, the GL sold the orphan home many years ago.

Assisting the public, and running hospitals and speech clinics, is a recent phenomenon.

So, if you don't count some lapses, Masonry has supported charitable activities (at least within the Craft and their widows and orphans) since the time of operative Masonry.
 

pointwithinacircle2

Rapscallion
Premium Member
One change that I, and many others would like to see, is meetings which are interesting, informative, and offer value to the members.
Challenge. In how many meetings a year do you stand up and offer something which is interesting, informative, or has some other Masonic value? Unless you mean that you are waiting for someone else to become a better man by doing the work, or that you are waiting for your GL to deliver a prepackaged education program to your door. Don't just want Masonry to be better. Make it better. Don't wait for Masonry to get better, be better and make Masonry catch up to you!

Disclaimer:
I get to harp on this subject because I actually do stand and present something to the Lodge every time I attend.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
I have not attended my home lodge, since my father's funeral in October 2010. I visit some Virginia lodges, when I am back in the USA. I returned from my last overseas contract in Jan 2014, and I am leaving for Kuwait next week.

When I was living in KY, I was a regular attendee at my home lodge. I made many proposals, and put forth several ideas that I wanted my lodge to consider. The only one they agreed on was to get a book "101 ways to improve your lodge". I suggested several things. I got copies of Masonic history videos from the GL of Oklahoma, no one was interested because "Masonry has existed for centuries without video". I wanted to set up a "Square and Compass" club. The Grand Master of KY called me at home and told me not to start one. It took me six months, to convince the lodge to get an answering machine, and the only way they would permit me to install it,
was if I disabled the answer function.

The GL of North Carolina already has an online training course for new Masons. No point in re-inventing the wheel, this program could easily be modified for other Grand Lodges.

I have been pushing for new ideas, and adaptations ever since I was raised on September 28,1982. I have offered to pay for the changes, and do the work. All I ever get is indifference.

I will never stop pushing for this Craft to make the necessary changes and adaptations to cope with the 21st Century.

"The truth is ugly, so we put our prophets in prison" - Charles Manson.
 

LAMason

Premium Member
In the days of operative Masonry, the Masons ran a relief fund to assist distressed and worthy brother Masons, their widows and orphans. I suspect, that nearly all of the relief stayed within the Craft, and their dependents...

So, if you don't count some lapses, Masonry has supported charitable activities (at least within the Craft and their widows and orphans) since the time of operative Masonry.

A citation is the credible source where you got the information. Rehashing what you said and stating what you suspect does not qualify as a citation. So once again citation please.
 

LAMason

Premium Member
Here is a respected source of Masonic history:

[URL]http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/History/other_files/operative_freemasonry.htm[/url]

Here is the quote:

Q: They were an organized Community, therefore there were Officers, meetings and conferences. The Community had its own funds, its own religious observances, its amusements, feasts, sports, its social life, and cared for its own injured, crippled, dead, the widows, and orphans. End quote.

and from the "Lodge of Happiness" (UK)

Q: From its earliest days, Freemasonry has been concerned with the care of orphans, the sick and the aged. This work continues today. In addition, large sums are given to national and local charities END Q

See

[URL]http://lodgeofhappiness.org.uk/about-our-lodge/the-core-principles-of-freemasonry-brotherly-love-relief-and-truth/[/url]

I never could get the Lodge of Happiness link to work, and themasonictrowel.com web page is certainly not credible. It doesn't even list an author and much of what is stated is actually incorrect.

Do you believe this information from that link?

"Architects were called Freemasons rather than Masons partly because they were in a fraternity and free to move about, partly because they worked in free-stone, and partly for a number of other and lesser reasons - the word in itself can tell us little about our history. These Freemasons designed and constructed the cathedrals, churches, chapels, monasteries, nunneries, palaces, guildhalls, borough halls, college buildings, forts, and other structures of a monumental type, for public purposes, which then as now, and everywhere, are architecture properly so called, and which stand far apart, almost in another world, from the simple structures of residences, stores, factories, barns, etc., which any man with normal skill and a few years of experience can learn to design and construct. The Freemasons were in a class apart from other Masons because their buildings were in a class apart from other buildings."

You do know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, right?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
..."Architects were called Freemasons rather than Masons partly because they were in a fraternity and free to move about, partly because they worked in free-stone, and partly for a number of other and lesser reasons - the word in itself can tell us little about our history. These Freemasons designed and constructed the cathedrals, churches, chapels, monasteries, nunneries, palaces, guildhalls, borough halls, college buildings, forts, and other structures of a monumental type, for public purposes, which then as now, and everywhere, are architecture properly so called, and which stand far apart, almost in another world, from the simple structures of residences, stores, factories, barns, etc., which any man with normal skill and a few years of experience can learn to design and construct. The Freemasons were in a class apart from other Masons because their buildings were in a class apart from other buildings."

You do know you can't believe everything you read on the internet, right?
This quoted conjecture has about as much credibility as an eleven dollar bill. It might look great until you realize it has no value whatsoever.

Yes! I do not believe it. I did at first, that is, until I did research and found out that it was pure unadulterated conjecture and that it has been re-quoted ever since it was originally put into print, and done so as if it were fact. It is not.

BTW - the only thing that Freemasonry has ever designed and constructed as an organization is franchise amateur theater that generates charitable contributions. Stone-crafters did the design and construction of the quoted items. Freemasons made plays about them, which did indeed place them in a class apart, but not for the reasons stated.

This is another thing that I would like to see change about the organization: Getting real about what it actually does.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
I have read the Masonic Trowel many times in the past. I accept most of the information there, to be reliable. I certainly do not believe everything I read on the internet. I have researched Freemasonry extensively over the past 33 years. My research has led me to believe that the early operative Masons would come to the aid of distressed and worthy brother Master Masons, and their widows and orphans. If not with cash, but with in-kind assistance.

If you have information to the contrary, feel free to present it.

Everybody knows that the early history of operative Masonry is a mix of facts as well as part legend, part conjecture.
 
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RyanC

Registered User
I think we (Freemason) miss the point with a lot of thing, Charity begin one of them. We taught that charity to a mason should be very important, but Freemasonry as a origination should be not a Charity group.
 

LAMason

Premium Member
I have read the Masonic Trowel many times in the past. I accept most of the information there, to be reliable. I certainly do not believe everything I read on the internet. I have researched Freemasonry extensively over the past 33 years. My research has led me to believe that the early operative Masons would come to the aid of distressed and worthy brother Master Masons, and their widows and orphans. If not with cash, but with in-kind assistance.

If you have information to the contrary, feel free to present it.

Everybody knows that the early history of operative Masonry is part legend, part conjecture.

The research that you provided has been shown not to be credible, so do you have other sources that are credible to support your claim? As the author of the statement the burden of proof lies with you. If you can't prove it, you should qualify your statement by saying that it is just your opinion and that you can not provide credible sources to back it up.

If you "know that the early history of operative Masonry is part legend, part conjecture" why do you insist on trying to pass it off as fact?
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
The research that you provided has been shown not to be credible, so do you have other sources that are credible to support your claim? As the author of the statement the burden of proof lies with you. If you can't prove it, you should qualify your statement by saying that it is just your opinion and that you can not provide credible sources to back it up.

If you "know that the early history of operative Masonry is part legend, part conjecture" why do you insist on trying to pass it off as fact?


--I have been studying Freemasonry for over three decades. I do not have any "primary sources", such as documents, or diaries, which reveal that operative Masons took care of each other, and their surviving dependents. Nevertheless, it can be reasonably deduced, that the men who built the great cathedrals and public buildings would look out for one another, in times of distress.

I suggest we just drop it.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
One thing I would like to see more of in Masonry, is more informal associations outside the tyled lodge. I am talking about "Square and Compass" clubs, and "Widow's Sons" clubs. In New Hampshire, most (not all) lodges are dark in the summer months. Many (not all) NH masons join square and compass clubs, and have barbecues and other events in the summer. The meetings are OPEN, and families and guests attend.
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
I lived in New Hampshire for a short while. The reason that New Hampshire masons set up "Square and Compass" clubs, is because under New Hampshire tax law, Masonry is considered a "fraternal organization", and as such has certain restrictions on fund-raising, and other activities like charity bingo games and such. A "Square and compass" club, can incorporate as a "non-profit organization", and be free to raise tax-free money with raffles, and bingo games,etc. When I lived in NH, a NH mason explained to me, that every member of his lodge was simultaneously a member of BOTH the lodge and the local Square and Compass club.

Keep in mind, that most NH lodges are "dark" , totally closed down from May through September. By having a separate organization, membership records, and the administrative functions can be handled separately from the lodge.

(Disclaimer: I am NOT an attorney, and certainly NOT an expert on New Hampshire tax law. I lived in NH in 1982, and the laws with respect to clubs, fraternal organizations and fund raising in the Granite State, may not be the same now. )
 

cemab4y

Premium Member
What do you mean? Freemasonry is (among other things) an organization of individuals. How can an individual take responsibility for a group/club/organizational experience ? It seems antithetical to me.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Can you name one appendant body that actually does do the serious Work of Freemasonry, other than "charity" work, which in all frankness, is not the "Work" but merely one of the "Results" of Freemasonic Work?
Rectified Rite.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Let's keep the discussion "on point".

The appendant/concordant bodies (generally) exist to provide their memberships with experiences that cannot be had in the tyled lodge, nor in the activities that most Masons engage in, outside the lodge.

The Shrine was started by several Freemasons in New York City, exactly to provide fun, fellowship, dining, moderate use of alcohol, for the members AND THEIR WIVES. .....

Citation that Shrine was started so wives could be involved?
 
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