My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Traditional Observance

RyanC

Registered User
Without dispute membership has declined each year since 1959, after the post WW2 membership boom, but based on my personal experience and research the decline is a result of major societal, cultural, and demographic shifts. What evidence do you have to support your statement?

In my opinion TO and EC Lodges appeal to a very small segment of men, that is not to say there is anything wrong with them, but I can tell you that if all Lodges adopted their requirements Masonic membership in Louisiana would plummet.

Do you have any data on the number of members that currently belong to these types of Lodges and the number of members they have initiated, passed, and raised over the last 5 years.


Please tell me why most TO have a 100% attends rate, please tell me why TO lodges in Colorado have not failed but broken off into new lodges and that they them selfs have also succeeded in a 100% attends rate. TO lodges focus on education, if your lodge is not doing (as most don't) you might be doing it wrong. And the small % who want to join this lodges because of what they give is what people joining Masonry today are looking for. Because t you are right TO lodges are not for everyone that is why people who want or like TO are not trying to change every lodge, but again I find it funny that those who do not like TO lodges are trying to change them. Reminds me of the those old PM that are against any kind of change.
 
Last edited:

RyanC

Registered User
Although your question is irrelevant since I did not comment on the content of the book or the merits of TO Lodges, I will pay you the courtesy of giving you a direct answer, which is something you have not returned. No, I have not read the book.


Maybe it is relevant from the point of how much research into TO lodges did you do, I get it TO lodge don't seem to be for you. But for other it is what them where looking for.
 

LAMason

Premium Member
Please tell me why most TO have a 100% attends rate, please tell me why TO lodges in Colorado have not failed but broken off into new lodges and that they them selfs have also succeeded in a 100% attends rate.

I guess because they appeal to men who are passionate about Freemasonry and enjoy more formal meetings with pomp and circumstance, but I don't see how that has anything to do with my comment about what is responsible for the decline in membership or that it will not appeal to a large segment of Masons. That is not a value judgment. Just as it is a value judgment to say that Freemasonry does not appeal to a large segment of men in the US, because in 2013 the U S male population was about 156 million and masonic membership (not including Prince Hall and groups not considered regular, because I do not have data on those numbers) was about 1.25 million, .8% of the population.

I am not criticizing TO Lodges or their members, I have never said they do not fill a void and appeal to a niche within Freemasonry, much the same as the Appendant/Concordant/Affilliate organizations do.
 

RyanC

Registered User
I was not suggesting,


I was just pointing out that while TO and EC Lodges are appealing to some, that appeal is limited to a relatively small number of men, and if one of the goals is to stem the tide of declining Masonic membership (which I do not believe to be the case), in my opinion it will not meet that goal.

I was addressing the cause and effect fallacies “as membership dwindled” that created “a movement to "dumb down" Freemasonry by lowering dues and lowering standards” (in and of itself debatable) which in turn resulted in “the adverse effect of driving more people away from the Craft than drawing new members to it”.

I would like to see the evidence to support that assertion.


That is an anecdotal account about one Lodge.

I am not saying that the following information is representative of all TO and EC Lodges:
In Louisiana there are two TO Lodges
  • The Lodge of Nine Muses No. 9 in Baton Rouge, LA
    • Dispensation granted in 2004, 19 members 12-31-2004
    • 24 members 12-31-2012
  • O. K. Allen Lodge No. 33 Winnfield, LA
    • Dispensation granted in 2010, 25 members 12-31-2010
    • 22 members 12-31-2012

Also, I find it interesting that of the 23 Charter Members of Lodge Virtruvian No. 767 in Indianapolis, Indiana 19 have demitted. http://vitruvian.org/?page_id=10

Again, I am not saying there is anything wrong with TO and EC Lodges. To each his own.


Now that sounds elitist.


Why did this members demitt do you know only other that they did. I live here in NY when I retire I plan on moving south, so if I'm a member a several different lodges here should I stay a member of the all?
 

RyanC

Registered User
I guess because they appeal to men who are passionate about Freemasonry and enjoy more formal meetings with pomp and circumstance, but I don't see how that has anything to do with my comment about what is responsible for the decline in membership or that it will not appeal to a large segment of Masons. That is not a value judgment. Just as it is a value judgment to say that Freemasonry does not appeal to a large segment of men in the US, because in 2013 the U S male population was about 156 million and masonic membership (not including Prince Hall and groups not considered regular, because I do not have data on those numbers) was about 1.25 million, .8% of the population.

I am not criticizing TO Lodges or their members, I have never said they do not fill a void and appeal to a niche within Freemasonry, much the same as the Appendant/Concordant/Affilliate organizations do.


TO lodges will not change how many join Freemasonry, and a lot of people think that is the problem, how many are joining. The real problem is retention and we need to fix that.
 
Top