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Grand Lodge Age ?

AndreAshlar

AndreAshlar

Registered User
I'm not aware of a "split" between regular AF&AM and F&AM. I do know, however, of a split between PHA (all are F&AM) and clandestine, non-PHA predominately black AF&AM.
 
AndreAshlar

AndreAshlar

Registered User
Travelling Man91 said:
That's what I'm asking, when freemasonry began was it AF&AM or F&AM ?
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I believe it was F & AM. No one knows with certainty how or when the Masonic Fraternity was formed. A widely accepted theory among Masonic scholars is that it arose from the stonemasons' guilds during the Middle Ages. The language and symbols used in the fraternity's rituals come from this era. The oldest document that makes reference to Masons is the Regius Poem, printed about 1390, which was a copy of an earlier work. In 1717, four lodges in London formed the first Grand Lodge of England, and records from that point on are more complete.

From 1751 to 1813, there were actually 2 Grand Lodges in England. The difference in AF & AM vs F & AM goes back to a disagreement between these 2 Grand Lodges in London at that time.

One group was called the "Moderns" (F&AM), but was actually the older of the 2 English Grand Lodges. The other group was called the "Antients" (AF&AM), which became the "Ancients" in AF and AM.

Due to this disagreement, the 2 groups broke into separate Grand Lodges.



Read more: http://www.masonic-lodge-of-education.com/af-and-am-vs-f-and-am-states.html#ixzz3yTfGBRRT
 
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dfreybur

dfreybur

Premium Member
Travelling Man91 said:
There are some GLS that are AF&AM and some are F&AM. I wonder what the difference is. I remember having this discussion before, but I can't recall the difference.
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Before the 1812 merger of the Antients and Moderns into the United Grand Lodge of England, those two GLs sponsored lodges in the colonies and those colonies organized into their own jurisdictions. Mostly the ones on the eastern seaboard descended from the Moderns used the term F&AM. Mostly the ones on the eastern seaboard descended from the Antients used the term AF&AM. Once we get to states formed after the Revolution it's much more random because some states formed by lodges from several older states.

The original African Lodge 459 was chartered by the Moderns, what we sometimes call the Premier Grand Lodge of England, the jurisdiction funded in 1717. For a while the names of Prince Hall descended jurisdictions was more random, but over time more and more switched to Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of (state) and they use the term F&AM. Why do all regularly descended PHA jurisdictions use the term F&AM? I suspect it's because they descended from the Premier Grand Lodge of England and that was the tradition among jurisdictions descended from that historical jurisdiction. I als suspect the details state to state are more complex than that simple summary of lineage.

Now all of the regular PHA jurisdictions use F&AM - http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp

Using AF&AM together with Prince Hall ensures clandestine status. Using F&AM together with PHA means it's worth looking a lodge up on the regularity list.
 
AndreAshlar

AndreAshlar

Registered User
dfreybur said:
Before the 1812 merger of the Antients and Moderns into the United Grand Lodge of England, those two GLs sponsored lodges in the colonies and those colonies organized into their own jurisdictions. Mostly the ones on the eastern seaboard descended from the Moderns used the term F&AM. Mostly the ones on the eastern seaboard descended from the Antients used the term AF&AM. Once we get to states formed after the Revolution it's much more random because some states formed by lodges from several older states.

The original African Lodge 459 was chartered by the Moderns, what we sometimes call the Premier Grand Lodge of England, the jurisdiction funded in 1717. For a while the names of Prince Hall descended jurisdictions was more random, but over time more and more switched to Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of (state) and they use the term F&AM. Why do all regularly descended PHA jurisdictions use the term F&AM? I suspect it's because they descended from the Premier Grand Lodge of England and that was the tradition among jurisdictions descended from that historical jurisdiction. I als suspect the details state to state are more complex than that simple summary of lineage.

Now all of the regular PHA jurisdictions use F&AM - http://www.conferenceofgrandmasterspha.org/gjlinks.asp

Using AF&AM together with Prince Hall ensures clandestine status. Using F&AM together with PHA means it's worth looking a lodge up on the regularity list.
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Beautiful
 
Mindovermatter Ace

Mindovermatter Ace

Registered User
The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Liberia uses the AF&AM.

The "3 letter/4 letter" monikers mean absolutely nothing as many Grand Lodges in America have used both or others.


Aaron Christopher
Cervantes #5
Grand Lodge of Louisiana F&AM
 
The Traveling Man

The Traveling Man

Registered User
Travelling Man91 said:
That's what I'm asking, when freemasonry began was it AF&AM or F&AM ?
Click to expand...

The Moderns (Premier Grand Lodge of London and Westminster) is where the F&AM comes from. They began in 1717. The Antients (Grand Lodge of the Most Ancient and Honourable Fraternity of Free and Accepted Masons) is where the AF&AM came from. They began in 1751. So to answer your question the F&AM came first. When the 2 combined in 1813 I believe they kept the AF&AM.

As for PHA switching from AF&AM to F&AM, prior to 1951 most (if not all) Prince Hall Grand Lodges were AF&AM. In 1951 The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Alabama changed to F&AM due to the fact that the Clandestine John G. Jones lodges were using AF&AM (to pass off as legitimate Masons). I am not 100% sure if Alabama was the first to switch but I know that after they did the rest of the Prince Hall Grand Lodges switched to F&AM. Liberia is the only exception, as the Prince Hall Grand Lodge uses AF&AM.

The 3 letter/4 letter thing is a PHA/JGJ thing. The Prince Hall Lodges would be considered 3 letter (F&AM) and the JGJ lodges would be 4 letter (AF&AM). The 3 and 4 letter is not used among the Grand Lodges of State (F&AM/AF&AM/FAAM/AFM)...

Any Grand Lodge (in America) that uses AF&AM and is Not the recognized Grand Lodge of State is Clandestine. No Exception.
Any Grand Lodge (in America) that uses F&AM and is Not either the recognized Grand Lodge of State or PHA is Clandestine. No Exception.
The only Grand Lodges (in America) that don't use F&AM or AF&AM is DC and South Carolina. The Grand Lodge of DC uses FAAM and the Grand Lodge of South Carolina uses AFM.
 
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