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Deist or Irreligious Freemasons

88DAM88

Registered User
My defenition of spiritual is that you belive in a supreme entety that reveals higher understanding thats beyond human and scientific understanding.

The words are chosen becuse they were not meant to be taken litteraly, they are only there to be pointers.

The dictomy between religion and science is a new idea, wich the Jesuits are good evidence for.
When modern freemasonry started to appear in the 1700s science and religion where highly entertwined with each other.


Interesting, your definition of spiritual is more a definition of religion and in my opinion somewhat touching on a definition of spirituality, but not of spiritual. My definition of spiritual is "non-material." I see matter and I see spirit, and I see that all of these are forms of energy. To me things of spirit are "meaning" "story" "ideas" thoughts" "intention" etc . . .

Much of Freemasonry, the language of the rituals and constitutions are extremely literal, use of exact wording to denote specific ideas being conveyed . . . one could not take the rituals in their old precise English crafted with extreme intelligence and literacy and render them in a lesser, colloquial manner and still have the same meaning, nor the same esoteric or spiritual conveyance. There is of course, much use of allegory and parable and symbol in Freemasonry, but I see them used to point to, or express, specific philosophies of morality and ethos. Science and religion, just as philosophy and metaphysics diverged, however, they are reuniting in our time as deepening of discoveries and understanding in all these disciplines are bringing them all closer again.

Thank you for your contribution to this conversation. I am bettered by the interaction and value it greatly even though we may as of yet disagree on some aspects, this is the joy of Fraternity to me. To listen and discover and be thereby expanded in my understanding of Humanity.
 

88DAM88

Registered User
You draw an artificial dichotomy. Studying scriptures does not preclude going deeper than the printed word. Many of us believe in personal revelation.

Edit: you also operate from the premise that all scriptures are the written word of man. Not all of us, and not all GLs, accept that premise.

Ah! I agree, Sir.

True: Studying scriptures does not preclude going deeper than the printed word.
True: Many of us believe in personal revelation.
Personal revelation is the way we know for ourselves the most important truths of our existence. I agree, but would posit that one man's path of revelation or practice of path, does not negate the legitimacy of another man's valid personal path or valid personally valid practice . . . and thereby, that one may receive spiritual knowledge via science, and that one may know the will of God by the functioning of the Laws of Nature which are "His" design, his Grand Architecture. I feel that many Masons seem to forget that God is a word to refer to a concept, that GAOTU stands for Grand Architect Of The Universe, that any Supreme Being would then be The God of (who rules) Nature, or Nature's God, Nature's Architect.

I would love to see a Sacred Volume of the Law actually written in the handwriting of God.....I believe in the bible it said that God gave Moses one once, but that Moses broke the tablets, and so God then had Moses dictate (write) them down. Inspired writings, I can understand that, but that could be as broad as any Mason's definition or understanding of God / Deity / Supreme Being / GAOTU.

Grand Lodge's only dictate the politics of the Freemasonic organization / business, they do not define Freemasonry nor God to Mason's. They couldn't, otherwise there would be one Universal definition of it, all GL Constitutions would read the same etc . .. just like there are SO many different churches, there is no one true truth. That is, quite obviously, each man's own personal territory of understanding and development. Freemasonry should be the Fraternity, a supportive scaffolding for each Brother to seek and explore and discover an define this.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
A. I respect your view, however, I am a bit taken aback by a man who says that he does not trust inquiry and observation and study and delving in depth into matter and spirit is a valid path of gaining wisdom and insight. .

I was quite specific when I used the word "possible". You clearly have mistaken what I made effort to communicate.
 

88DAM88

Registered User
I was quite specific when I used the word "possible". You clearly have mistaken what I made effort to communicate.

You are correct again, Brother. Your response was "No. I do see it as a possible path." and I somehow misread that as No. I do not see it as a possible path." Your conveyance is clear to me, now that my error in perception has been corrected. Thank you.
 

Mark S

Registered User
This was a very good read. I am not a mason yet, and have been missing out on opportunities in the past. I always thought I tik all the mason boxes, but for the faith part. I life my life according to the good book of Christianity and respect and love other people's choice of faith. My wish to do good and end in a happy place is very important to me. Although I would not give myself the title of Christian as I do not practice it. This issue was always my greatest worry if I had the privilege of an interview.

Sent from my SM-N910C using My Freemasonry mobile app
 

GGG

Site Benefactor
Although I'm only in the beginning of the road towards entering a regular lodge, I already noticed a sharp state or feeling of active opposition towards the irregular philosophy in my country (and I think vice versa) -> not towards brothers in person, but rather towards the way of thinking). But I like the idea of having VSL/Bible as a philosophical, ethical scripture or a referral to any holy book and not Christian in a dogmatic way in particular. Religious, but not dogmatic. I wouldn't mind to find a bible an a regular lodge.
 

Cruce

Registered User
I have a mixture of beliefs from Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, Judaism, Gnostic teachings and ancient beliefs.
 
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Cruce

Registered User
Regarding the U.S constitution, I believe it is technically null and void after the estate fractured into the original 13 colonies. It's a little legal technicality that's worth looking into. Also mentioning the constitution makes you a potential terrorist now by law and detainable indefinitely. Just some useful information.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Regarding the U.S constitution, I believe it is technically null and void after the estate fractured into the original 13 colonies. It's a little legal technicality that's worth looking into. Also mentioning the constitution makes you a potential terrorist now by law and detainable indefinitely. Just some useful information.
Doesn't that make you a potential terrorist?
 

Keith C

Registered User
Regarding the U.S constitution, I believe it is technically null and void after the estate fractured into the original 13 colonies. It's a little legal technicality that's worth looking into. Also mentioning the constitution makes you a potential terrorist now by law and detainable indefinitely. Just some useful information.

So you are not a Mason, but know more about Freemasonry than the majority of posters here.

And you are not a US Citizen, but know more about the US Constitution than the majority of Constitutional scholars and Justices of the US Supreme Court?

Am I missing something?
 

Cruce

Registered User
Doesn't that make you a potential terrorist?

Luckily no. I Live in England ;)

So you are not a Mason, but know more about Freemasonry than the majority of posters here.

And you are not a US Citizen, but know more about the US Constitution than the majority of Constitutional scholars and Justices of the US Supreme Court?

Am I missing something?

When did I say i know more about the constitution than US scholars? lol

Where do you think I learned what I know about the constitution? American scholars and legal/Law experts.
 
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Cruce

Registered User
Do you even know your country never really got independence from Britain and that the Queen is still the beneficiary of your social security system? America (land of the snakes - from Hopi native American language) is not even a country it's technically a corporation. Do you even know about your birth certificate bonds? Your country was not discovered by Christopher Columbus (that's not even his real name) it was discovered by Japanese and Chinese dynasties, then Vikings, celts etc and probably visited/discovered thousands of years before that as we have the ancient maps now. Due to the cestui que vie act of 1666 you don't even have rights or claim to property since you registered your birth certificate. Unless you provided proof of life within 7 years. You're classed by law as dead at sea you have no rights or claim to property. The Vatican owns all your stuff. Your car you don't own. when you registered it you gave away ownership, you're now just the "registered keeper". lol


There is so much people don't realise.
 
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Cruce

Registered User
talk about misinterpret. I'm not a troll! If I wanted to troll I'd delete your website or create an account creating bot to create thousands of accounts and set them to just spam all your threads. (before you misinterpret that, that is NOT a threat to do so or an intention). I don't "troll" I have better things to do. Infact I've spent a lot of time combatting trolls, bots, spammers and scammers for multiple organisations and online businesses. I live in England therefore American law doesn't apply to me is what I meant -.-' for an "enlightened" "charitable" person you're pretty touchy and insulting.

So yeah thanks for that I feel so welcomed :/
Potential terrorists are not lucky to live outside the US borders.

Guys, it's time to block the troll!

I'm not a potential terrorist as that law doesn't apply to me.

If it's something I've said that you would rather I didn't then private message me and I will keep such things to myself. ;) but say what you mean because the whole "troll" label is nonsense. I've been nothing but polite, friendly and engaging in conversation. Is that trolling?

About the only thing I've done wrong on this thread is be a little "off topic". But it's all relevant to the previous posts.

You're pushing me out when I could be VERY useful. If you block me it's your loss not mine. All of the freemasonry secrets of the 33 degrees are already on the internet posted by ex 33rd degree freemasons. My Family are an occult family there's not much more I can learn from you anyway but I wanted to help. I already know all your rituals, plays, stances, hand shakes, songs and teachings. Infact I can probably teach you a few things save you waiting till your 80. you're just a low lvl politician or businessman lol. I'm going to just leave you're not charitable or welcoming at all. We've trained you well :). You'll probably be a freemason your whole life and we still won't teach you anything. Good luck with that. You missed out. lol

Cya


Thanks to everyone who was nice to me and welcoming this is no way aimed towards you <3
 
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88DAM88

Registered User
A blank book is specifically prohibited in some jurisdictions, as it cannot contain the revealed word of God.
That prohibition is SO silly and I hope enlightenment eventually moves those Brothers and Jurisdictions to abandon that unfounded dogma. . I find it strange that "word" is taken so conservatively when even the bible as SVL has so many multidimensional interpretations of "word."
The whole aversion to a blank book is a manifestation of ignorance and lack of imagination, not to mention a it seems a dogma mired in an undeveloped understanding of our science . . . a dogma based in ignorance and not a far cry from fanaticism. The idea that a blank book cannot reveal the "word" of God, or that a blank book could not "be" the revealed word of GodJesus has said that even the very stones speak truth. Albert Pike has stated "The first Scriptures for the human race were written by God on the Earth and Heavens. The reading of these Scriptures is Science. Familiarity with the grass and trees, the insects and the infusoria, teaches us deeper lessons of love and faith than we can glean from the writings of FENELO and AUGUSTINE. The great Bible of God is ever open before mankind."
 
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