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Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge, it is not and can never be regular as it allows women to be members. It may indeed be a wonderful organization and she may indeed be a wonderful person, but she is not and will never be a "Brother" or a "regular" Mason.
Yep.
This one I'd have to say no on. Being gay is one thing but once a woman always a woman.
Same here.
What if I go to the zoo and paint black and white stripes on a horse? Does that make is a zebra? What if most of the zoo visitors consider it a zebra because it looks as acts like one?
Good point.
How many times have we told you to stop doing that?
***snicker snicker***
 

Bloke

Premium Member
The implication being that exclusion of the transgender violates the law? As a private Association we are allowed to discriminate on any number of bases: gender, religious belief, criminal history....

That aside, there issue of disclosure....
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Bill Lins said:
Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge, it (co-masons) is not and can never be regular as it allows women to be members.
Coach said:
Fortunately for them (co-masons), that (regularity opinion of your GL) doesn't matter.
Well, but it (the opinion of his GL) does for co-Masons, or at least many comasons have stated so repeatedly and at length, including in this thread.
I did not get this from the posts on this thread.

What I did get is that the opinion of any other Grand Lodge as to co-mason regularity doesn't matter since it is only the regularity of the co-mason Grand Lodge that matters to the co-mason GL. As it should.
 
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Bloke

Premium Member
What I did get is that the opinion of any other Grand Lodge as to co-mason regularity doesn't matter since it is only the regularity of the co-mason Grand Lodge that matters to the co-mason GL. As it should.

EXACTLY COACH !

This is why I thought Karen's essay won the prestigious prize it did, because it explains that. The prize was sponsored by the (very "regular"!) United Grand Lodge of England's Pro-Grand Master, Lord Northampton.

It made me understand "regularity" with a clarity i did not have before Bro Karen gave me some schooling.

"Regularity" is like club rules. What is acceptable in one club is not acceptable in another.

Mainstream "Regular" Freemasons sometimes carry on about what happens in clubs they will never visit, have a shared heritage with, and the ironically often wish us well (and will receive us as visitors though we can't visit because of our own rules).... Frankly many regular Freemasons vilify and persecute other Freemasons, because they're not in the same club. It often feels akin to Christian persecuting Christian because they're different denominations.

If you want to understand the concept of regularity - read Bro Karen's article without getting hung up on her gender or title. Regularity is the product of each Soveign GL much like law is the product of each Sovereign Nation State. What's legal in one state can be illegal in another and as Freemasonry instructs it's members to abide by the Law of the State in which they reside, so should we abide by the Law of our own GL's.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
The thread went like this...
Bloke said:
Years ago I was on another boards with Bro Karen. She gave me a much better understanding of regularity. It's wonderfully short, and if you have not read it before (and I am sure many of you would have) read her "I am Regular" essay http://beacon190.ca/2017/02/11/i-am-regular/
Bill Lins said:
...To begin with, the word "brother" BY DEFINITION refers exclusively to those of the male gender/sex. ...
coachn said:
If you seriously studied the trivium, you'd have learned well 1) that words take their meanings within context, 2) that definitions are not universal, and 3) that meanings are specific to their assigned application. Your definition argument is weak.
The context within which I was commenting was clear- "Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge".
Not really. What is clear is that you are trying to re-associate your comment:
Bill Lins said:
Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge, it is not and can never be regular as it allows women to be members.
By taking my words "out of context". The posted string does not lie.

What I wrote has everything to do with "the context to which" you were arguing "BY DEFINITION", and not to what came far later in your post about "Under the rules of MY Grand Lodge".

Your protestation is weak. Your argument is weaker.
 

David612

Registered User
Woman may go through the transgender process but she can not change her DNA or her skeleton. So she can change her outward appearance and live and act as a male but she will never truly be a male.




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As I said befor I'm happy to drop the subject but I'll bite, do you often find your male skeleton or DNA to be a significant advantage in freemasonry, since the state will legally recognise them as male and it makes no difference to me I'm not concerned, if it's an issue for you then that's something you should reflect on and educate yourself on. The number of young transgender people killing themselves or being beaten to death in the streets in other countries is sickening.

I don't think this forum is for me.
 

MasterBulldawg

Registered User
As I said befor I'm happy to drop the subject but I'll bite, do you often find your male skeleton or DNA to be a significant advantage in freemasonry, since the state will legally recognise them as male and it makes no difference to me I'm not concerned, if it's an issue for you then that's something you should reflect on and educate yourself on. The number of young transgender people killing themselves or being beaten to death in the streets in other countries is sickening.

I don't think this forum is for me.

1. I am not bashing or making fun anyone. Just stating fact.

2. I believe it's about less than 1% of the total population in the USA and I am not sure out of that 1% how many is transgender males or transgender males that is interested in joining Freemasony. So I don't think Freemasony will huge rush of transgender male petitioning.

3. My DNA and Skeleton is what makes me biologically male which is i believe a requirement in 99% of the MS GLs(no sure about France) to even petition.

4. I am live and let live kind of guy so that's why i think that unless a MS GL petition specifically asks about being a bio. male or transgender male then it should be left to local lodges and the craft of the Grand Lodges.

I have said on other issues: I believe that local lodges and the craft of the Grand Lodges should be the keeper of the West Gate. We as a fraternity should look for quality over quantity.

Sent from my SM-G930P using My Freemasonry mobile app
 
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Bloke

Premium Member
....If you seriously studied the trivium, you'd have learned well 1) that words take their meanings within context, 2) that definitions are not universal, and 3) that meanings are specific to their assigned application.....

When I first read the above I just accepted it because I agreed with it. That might be because its correct or it might be of my own cognitive bias...

Thinking on these three points and putting Plato and his Caves aside, how they apply to a word like "truth"?

English is a lot less contextual than a language like Chinese, and generally i think in English we work towards a standard understanding of concepts conveyed with words, even those with multiple meanings like "sanguine" where context is key, or understand that communication through language relies on our ability to interpret what others are trying to convey based on shared understanding of the words we use.

What do you think Coach ?
 
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