hanzosbm
Premium Member
Ha! That has definitely happened to me before.(Grr...I should not have come in there when I only have 10 minutes, but will come back - I look forward to it).
Ha! That has definitely happened to me before.(Grr...I should not have come in there when I only have 10 minutes, but will come back - I look forward to it).
You're absolutely right, it COULD be correct. To my mind, when we talk about what a symbol means, it's like asking what a piece of art or symbolism in a book mean. The artist/author may have had some particular meaning in mind and we might get another meaning out of it. Does that mean one is right and the other is not? There's a debate for ya! I remember William Golding being asked about his book Lord of the Flies (a book that almost every child in this country is taught is filled with symbolism). The interviewer was asking about the obvious symbolism of this particular thing meaning something or other. Golding responded that this view as pure, as you put it, bovine output; he never intended for that meaning at all. Of course, he wrote the book with symbolism galore, but not all of the interpretations of the readers matched his intention. I guess the question then is, are those interpretations 'wrong'? Is there such a thing?
...[Bloke quoting an unnamed WM "The First Degree is about birth, the Second how you live your life, and the Third how it ends"] It is only one man's view being put forth to someone who is a newbie. I would never say this to a newbie. It's misleading and misrepresents them..
....[Bloke - I don't buy the Birth-Life-Afterlife/Resurrection interpretation of Degrees, esp in relation to the Third Degree] .Me either! ( I have an entire chapter in my last book addressing that very bastardized aspect. Want to hazard a guess as to where I took the conversation? ).
...[Bloke - Degrees are less the sign posts on a road, but rather the water you swim in] .Disagree. They are not the territories; they ARE the maps. Although there are many who make them the territories and never see that they are the maps.? ).
..[Bloke Likewise, I think the Third Degree has a lot to do about "Birth" (change) claimed as the focus in the First, but again, its just more obvious in the First than in the Third - and all these elements are in all the second degree. ...] I understand. I just don't agree. It's unfortunate too that such a notion is well entrenched within the fraternity. It connotes the newly made MM is a child. He is not and if he takes upon himself this notion, he is not a Master at all and wears the title falsely..
Nice!... To boil them down, they're about how to conduct yourself honourably, and the tools to measure that, and intellectual development.
No and no. As previous stated....You think the birth-life-death thing is a complete misrepresentation, even when applied as analogy and/or simile and/or metaphor? Does only using the birth-life bits not even work ?
And elsewhere, as well!...Here ?
Only Total Immersion will do!!...That was the first time I'd ever said (well, typed) that. I agree they are maps (and sign posts on a journey) but I still like this water simile because once you have mastered the work of each degree (and I don't lay claim to having done so) then you apply all these lessons and skills at the same time..
That's the point. Most everyone doesn't understand it....Hmmm.. yet I would imagine that one walks out of the Third Degree understanding it.
So, your thought is if we really understand the First and Second Degree, you'll walk out of the third degree understanding it ?..That's the point. Most everyone doesn't understand it.
However, the degree is a test put forth in the form of a ritualize Morality Play. It tests you as to whether you actually did do the Work of the previous degrees. There are only two outcomes:
- If you did do that Work, you understand the degree to be a celebration and acknowledgement of completing that Work and that you are The Word.
- If you didn't do the Work, you will believe that you actually received a substitute for the real thing, because that's exactly what you are.
I am saying: When you cultivate the skills that come about by doing the Work that the First and Second Degree direct you to do, you'll walk into the third degree recognizing it for what it is.So, your thought is if we really understand the First and Second Degree, you'll walk out of the third degree understanding it ?
This public discussion concerning the meaning of the Degrees is disheartening and disappointing. Remember your Obligation about circumspection Brothers, both its implicit and explicit meaning. This is a PUBLIC forum. On the subject at hand, you are delving too deeply, IMHO. Who is benefiting, the OP or you?
LOL! Translation: As long as no one hangs himself!...The discussion will be allowed to continue as long as the parties involved there in remain within the length of their cable tow.
Hi Bro PhilThis public discussion concerning the meaning of the Degrees is disheartening and disappointing. Remember your Obligation about circumspection Brothers, both its implicit and explicit meaning. This is a PUBLIC forum. On the subject at hand, you are delving too deeply, IMHO. Who is benefiting, the OP or you?
My hope is that everyone involved is benefiting.Who is benefiting, the OP or you?