My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

racism question

David612

Registered User
My family came to the United States in 1910(ish). One side came from Sicily, the other from Ireland. I could claim I have no dog in this fight but, this would be not true. I never understood hating on a people because of skin tone. Personally, I LOVE exploring other people's cultures (especially the foods! I am a Mason after all lol).
True, the way the white settlers treated the Aboriginal people here in Aus is quite akin to the way the American Indians where treated in a lot of ways.
I’ve got Scottish, Irish and Greek blood so yeah.. there is trouble on any front really at some point in history.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
True, fortunately we have progressed beyond this (well for the most part anyway) but the notion that this institutional racism exists within the our supposedly enlightened organisation makes my skin crawl.
Honestly I’d like to see recognition pulled from places where this continues if it can’t be rectified in short order.
What about PHA GLs in amity with unrecognized groups, such as GLdF?
 

David612

Registered User
Who is GLdF?

Sent from my SM-G930T using My Freemasonry mobile app
I’m sure he means Gandalf


679C97B4-079D-4039-8469-BEA0CBCCED97.jpeg
 

David612

Registered User
As far as that goes, that’s for the Grand lodges to mess around with.
They can play politics and all that malarkey but when a man is referred on to Prince Hall masonry because he is black, that is more than a masonic recognition issue.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
As far as that goes, that’s for the Grand lodges to mess around with.
They can play politics and all that malarkey but when a man is referred on to Prince Hall masonry because he is black, that is more than a masonic recognition issue.
Well, yes, and the comment was based on your statement “Honestly I’d like to see recognition pulled from places where this continues if it can’t be rectified in short order.”

I think you’ll agree that your proposal to withdraw recognition is not as neat and simple as it sounds.

Your second point was not at issue.
 

David612

Registered User
Well, yes, and the comment was based on your statement “Honestly I’d like to see recognition pulled from places where this continues if it can’t be rectified in short order.”

I think you’ll agree that your proposal to withdraw recognition is not as neat and simple as it sounds.

Your second point was not at issue.
I was being facetious but it’s true that I would like to see a more active effort however the fact that things are changing is fantastic, it just brings a lot of shame upon us all that this is still a relevant discussion within the organisation.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Well, yes, and the comment was based on your statement “Honestly I’d like to see recognition pulled from places where this continues if it can’t be rectified in short order.”

I think you’ll agree that your proposal to withdraw recognition is not as neat and simple as it sounds.
Yep, we've been on this issue a few times before .
Grand Lodge A pulls recognition from Grand Lodge B. GL C gets upset over this and pulls recognition from GL A. GL D gets upset and pulls recognition from GLs B and C.....and so on and so forth. Where does it end?
 
Last edited:

dfreybur

Premium Member
Indeed. But it was still a surprise to discover Freemasonry did not stand aside from that, but as a institution of society, it makes sense that the Freemasons who comprised those lodges were racist -but even typing that feels wrong. I always point out, that according to the tradition history, the only reason Prince Hall Freemasonry was born was because a group of White Irish Freemasons initiated Prince Hall and his companions because they were not racist like local American Freemasons were,. or if those Irish Freemasons were racist, the made their passions and prejudices coincide with the just line of their conduct.

Read up on Irish slavery. The entire world needed to practice slavery once agriculture was invented or most would starve. Advances like beasts of burden and plow improvements allowed that ancient evil to be stopped one region at a time. Ireland had a much more recent experience of slavery than the rest of western Europe - In an era when Russia freeing the serfs was still more than a century in the future. This would have increased their sympathy on the issue.

This is something that just occurred to me today, but likely it's been discussed by others for many years.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Read up on Irish slavery. The entire world needed to practice slavery once agriculture was invented or most would starve. Advances like beasts of burden and plow improvements allowed that ancient evil to be stopped one region at a time. Ireland had a much more recent experience of slavery than the rest of western Europe - In an era when Russia freeing the serfs was still more than a century in the future. This would have increased their sympathy on the issue.

This is something that just occurred to me today, but likely it's been discussed by others for many years.
Well familiar with those things, although not sure the plow was the hinge on which slavery ended..
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
As far as that goes, that’s for the Grand lodges to mess around with.
They can play politics and all that malarkey but when a man is referred on to Prince Hall masonry because he is black, that is more than a masonic recognition issue.
Happens all the time brother. True story, I was raised a MM in 2014. My previous commander in the military was just getting his EA degree when he found out I was a freemason. Later, after he was raised he said that he didn't understand the PHA and GL of state Issues. I tried to explain to best of my ability without pointing fingers at one particular GL (Although, I will say I believe there is more heavy racism on the GL of TN side). He later told me that I ought to try and join his lodge. In order for me to do that, I would have to go through a long process denouncing PHA and "try" to petition his lodge. I had him raise the question in a stated meeting. He came back and said although we are one of the most liberal lodges in the state of TN , raising a black man would cause issues with the GL and possibility have our charter pulled.
 

David612

Registered User
Happens all the time brother. True story, I was raised a MM in 2014. My previous commander in the military was just getting his EA degree when he found out I was a freemason. Later, after he was raised he said that he didn't understand the PHA and GL of state Issues. I tried to explain to best of my ability without pointing fingers at one particular GL (Although, I will say I believe there is more heavy racism on the GL of TN side). He later told me that I ought to try and join his lodge. In order for me to do that, I would have to go through a long process denouncing PHA and "try" to petition his lodge. I had him raise the question in a stated meeting. He came back and said although we are one of the most liberal lodges in the state of TN , raising a black man would cause issues with the GL and possibility have our charter pulled.
Im very sorry to hear that, it really makes my heart sink.
Out of curiosity, what is the make up of the local PH lodges?
All black or is it more multicultural?
 

AndreAshlar

Registered User
Read up on Irish slavery. The entire world needed to practice slavery once agriculture was invented or most would starve. Advances like beasts of burden and plow improvements allowed that ancient evil to be stopped one region at a time. Ireland had a much more recent experience of slavery than the rest of western Europe

False. That's a myth. Indentured servitude is not slavery.

Sent from my SM-G930T using My Freemasonry mobile app
 
Top