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A Progressive in Conservative land

Grimm

Registered User
Good morning brothers. Pleasure to be here as always.

Today I want to offer insight into what I find to be an interesting situation. Lets start with some background.

I live in the deep south of the United States in Texas. As some of you might guess this is a very conservative area and as my title suggests I am what could be called a progressive but in political theory I'm a social democrat. (Think FDR). I'm also a political activist well known in my local communities. I do not hide the fact that I am a mason openly displaying the square and compasses on my social media as well as wearing a ring because I am a very proud brother.

Now knowing that I am both openly a progressive and a proud Freemason many community members came to me privately to ask how this could be so. Apparently it had become the impression of some that the fraternity in the deep south was both deeply conservative but also racist and would not allow individuals such as myself to join. Of course I cleared up the confusion explaining that masonry like the rest of the world is filled with many different kinds of people and ideas and while certain ideas may be held by one individual or area that does not necessarily mean those things are universal. Initially I did not understand how this impression among some of the community came to be but we'll get to that in a moment.

When I was about to be initiated a couple years ago one of the brothers who was going to teach me the degree work warned me to be very careful about mentioning any politics to most of the brothers of the lodge. He didn't just mean in lodge as is custom not to discuss religion or politics but also in general noting that they were very conservative and very passionate. He believed this would cause contention and I followed his council with the exception of when I am addressed directly.

This is where things start to get interesting. After I was initiated and eventually raised to MM I was connected with many brothers through social media in the general area and they began seeing my posts which of course include many political opinions and my stances on policy and social issues. The younger and some older brothers did not take much issue and to this day we are still able to discuss and debate in civil discourse which I thoroughly enjoy. However, there came to be some who grew increasingly hostile even going as far as to say I was UN-masonic and UN-American out in the open essentially because I was not conservative like them. This is about the time I found out where the questions I mentioned earlier had come from. On another brothers post I saw the use of racial slurs and this was quite troubling as these brothers were long time members and Past Masters.

With that said the greater majority of brothers are some of the kindest sweet hearted people I know. This does however make for an interesting situation as you guys can see. As I understand it not much can be done but I'm curious. How would some of you handle this?
 

TheThumbPuppy

Registered User
You make some rather stark accusations.

However, there came to be some who grew increasingly hostile even going as far as to say I was UN-masonic and UN-American out in the open essentially because I was not conservative like them.

What would you like us to say? We were not there and we have not witnessed the conversations you refer to. If we had been, it is possible that we might have had a different reaction to what took place.

For example, I might have not attacked my Brethren's identity as an American and a Mason when recounting the event. I might have taken into account that they said what they did for reasons that are different from the one that I initially think of. I might have considered what I did to elicit a behaviour that I found offensive or reproachable. Just because I think that something happened in a certain way, it doesn't mean that it necessarily did happen like that.

But all of that is purely conjectural, as I – and presumably everybody else on this forum – didn't witness these events.

In general however, it is considered a sensible practice for a good Mason to avoid subjects that destroy harmony and introduce discord within a Lodge – and this include matters of a controversial, sectarian, divisive, or political nature.

EDIT: see post below
 
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Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
In general however, it is considered a sensible practice for a good Mason to avoid subjects that destroy harmony and introduce discord within a Lodge – and this include matters of a controversial, sectarian, divisive, or political nature.
Agreed. Myself, I couldn't care less about my Brothers' politics. Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion whether or not I agree with it.
 

Keith C

Registered User
You make some rather stark accusations.

For example, I might have not attacked my Brethren's identity as an American and a Mason when recounting the event. I might have taken into account that they said what they did for reasons that are different from the one that I initially think of. I might have considered what I did to elicit a behaviour that I found offensive or reproachable. Just because I think that something happened in a certain way, it doesn't mean that it necessarily did happened like that.

But all of that is purely conjectural, as I – and presumably everybody else on this forum – didn't witness these events.

I think that perhaps you mis-read that portion of the OP's post. The way I read it stated that Brethren from his Lodge accused the OP of unmasonic and unamerican behavior based on the political beliefs he shared on his own Social Media. He did note some of the self same Brethren had racial slurs on their Social Media pages, and he stated that was disturbing to him, but stated no accusations other than it disturbed him.

I try very hard to not engage in political discourse with other Masons. Also based on Social Media posts I know that the majority of active Members of my Lodge do not share the same political and social beliefs that I do. There are several who's opinions which were posted were offensive to me. My reaction is to not follow them on Scocial Media and deal with them on the Level as I do with all brethren.
 

BroBook

Premium Member
I think that perhaps you mis-read that portion of the OP's post. The way I read it stated that Brethren from his Lodge accused the OP of unmasonic and unamerican behavior based on the political beliefs he shared on his own Social Media. He did note some of the self same Brethren had racial slurs on their Social Media pages, and he stated that was disturbing to him, but stated no accusations other than it disturbed him.

I try very hard to not engage in political discourse with other Masons. Also based on Social Media posts I know that the majority of active Members of my Lodge do not share the same political and social beliefs that I do. There are several who's opinions which were posted were offensive to me. My reaction is to not follow them on Scocial Media and deal with them on the Level as I do with all brethren.
That is why we say be Good and True, keeping our opinions to ourselves.

Sent from my SM-S367VL using My Freemasonry mobile app
 

TheThumbPuppy

Registered User
I think that perhaps you mis-read that portion of the OP's post. The way I read it stated that Brethren from his Lodge accused the OP of unmasonic and unamerican behavior based on the political beliefs he shared on his own Social Media

I stand corrected. You're quite right. I misread that portion of the OP's post. Which proves my point : )

Just because I think that something happened in a certain way, it doesn't mean that it necessarily did happen like that.

Of course I can make no comment on whether the OP's posts on social media were unamerican or unmasonic. Perhaps they were, perhaps they weren't. If they were, I'd probably unfollow him.

I know that when someone feels to be wronged, he may look for support. But there's nothing we could say because we did not witness any of it.

And although the world would be a much better place if everybody thought like me (joke), I've come to terms with the fact that that's not going to happen anytime soon, I'm not going to be best friends with everybody, not everybody is going to like me (quite a few in that crowd in fact), and I myself have changed views on what I consider good for society throughout my life – in my 20's I was leaning more towards an idealistic view of humanity, now it's less idealistic and based more on what I see with own eyes.

Above all, I think it's a wise decision to spend less time on social media in general. I've started to cut down on that about five years ago. Facebook only to communicate with family members. No Twitter. 4 forums, although I recently unsubscribed from the Freemasonry forum on reddit. I'm still spending too much time on YouTube. That's a work in progress. But I digress again.
 
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Grimm

Registered User
No politics is distinctly an English tradition, developed to protect Masonry when secret societies were being suppressed. The key issue was whether English lodges supported the German king of England or the Stuart line of Scotland.

European lodges have been very active in political areas.

No religion might also be English with periodic suppression of Catholics and Protestants depending of the monarch of the time.
That's interesting I did not know that wasn't a universal sentiment of the fraternity.

Being a political activist well known locally it really becomes almost an unavoidable conversation at some point outside of the lodge especially using social media as a platform to move certain policies forward. I do strive to interact with kindness and on the level. I imagine due to the heated nature of the political field at present that perhaps some get lost in their passions. I do not begrudge them of this. I do worry though that the way they go about it does not always shine the best light on the fraternity especially when it comes to the public use of certain slurs.
 

TheThumbPuppy

Registered User
European lodges have been very active in political areas.

That is a generalisation that I don't think is quite true.

I am aware that some European irregular Grand Lodges align with a political activism of a certain leaning, for instance the Grand Orient de France or the Grand Orient de Belgique. Both these Grand Lodges count the largest number of members both in France and Belgium respectively.

However it is also true that European regular Grand Lodges uphold the same principles of no politics and no religions while in Lodge. For instance the Regular Grand Lodge of Belgium and Grande Loge Nationale Française.

In addition to that, there are European Lodges (as well as other parts of the world) that are under the supervision of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, which means that they are directly under the GLoS jurisdiction.
 

Elexir

Registered User
No politics is distinctly an English tradition, developed to protect Masonry when secret societies were being suppressed. The key issue was whether English lodges supported the German king of England or the Stuart line of Scotland.

European lodges have been very active in political areas.

No religion might also be English with periodic suppression of Catholics and Protestants depending of the monarch of the time.

Well the english also learned it the hard way when they where thrown out of Sweden.

The politics of european masonry has in some aspects nothing to do with the stuart line (unless you count the letter given to the swedish king from Bonnie Prince Charles) but has been more in the line of high politics regarding rituals and governance.

Or the no religion thing might have something to do with subtle influences by diffrent religious ideas.
 

Forthright

Registered User
That's interesting I did not know that wasn't a universal sentiment of the fraternity.

Being a political activist well known locally it really becomes almost an unavoidable conversation at some point outside of the lodge especially using social media as a platform to move certain policies forward. I do strive to interact with kindness and on the level. I imagine due to the heated nature of the political field at present that perhaps some get lost in their passions. I do not begrudge them of this. I do worry though that the way they go about it does not always shine the best light on the fraternity especially when it comes to the public use of certain slurs.

Masons are supposed to act as moral people in the world, but there's no guidebook on how to do that other than very broad general principles. It is implicitly delegated to each brother to choose how to do that. Unsurprisingly they come to radically different conclusions on the same topics. It's nice that we're a society of freethinkers, but nothing about being a freethinker guarantees that people will come to the right conclusions.

Also -- remember the symbol of the rough ashlar. Lots of brothers make mistakes in things that they do. I wouldn't personally go after a brother for their political beliefs. In my local community I see really intense division along political lines that "infects" masons because we're members of the wider community as well as Masons. If political viewpoints get so severe that someone thinks someone on the left is an Antifa socialist bent on destroying the country, and that someone on the right is a racist Nazi -- (I've heard a lot of both) -- well, with that off-kilter framing, rational debate isn't possible and like the others in this thread I'd strongly suggest avoiding the topic altogether. You're dealing with caricatures & boogeymen at that point, not real people, and brothers need to be real, 3D people.

Avoiding the topic will not protect you from other brothers who want to engage the fight. Without feeling superior, try to remember that they are rough ashlars and that you are within your rights as a mason to whisper good council in their ear, and Masonic Condescension.

This can be ridiculously difficult and sometimes awkward to do, but hey, nobody ever said this life & relationship management thing was going to be easy. :/
 

Bloke

Premium Member
No politics is distinctly an English tradition, developed to protect Masonry when secret societies were being suppressed. The key issue was whether English lodges supported the German king of England or the Stuart line of Scotland.

European lodges have been very active in political areas.

No religion might also be English with periodic suppression of Catholics and Protestants depending of the monarch of the time.
Like the Thumb Puppy, I agree, I don't think this is true. Look to the USA and the reaction in Freemasonry against the Ant-Masonic Party of the 1820's. Further, Freemasonry became a political football and in the USA, Freemasons reacted towards that.

In Italy, you had the Grand Master and Giuseppe Garibaldi taking on the Pope, but never forget that was in the context of the Italian Revolution and a temporal war against the Papal States... but also that they were members of a GRAND ORIENT not a Grand Lodge. There is the rub, many Grand Orients have got involved in politics, that is why the do not meet standards of recognition for many other GLs (but there are a few "Regular and Recongised" Grand Orients).

@Grimm one of the problems is where does the lines between "social justice" versus "politics" sit ? For one person "feed the poor" is a social justice statement, for others, it is a very political one. Here in Australia, free healthcare is seen as a basic human right, but in other countries it is highly politicized. The same blurred line can exist between "religion" and "spirituality", same for "politics" and "history".

One of the wonderful things about Freemasonry is we lay politics and religion aside and come together in Brotherly Love in a lodge. Preserving and promoting that is why we don't talk politics and religion. Outside the Lodge, the Freemason is free to pursue any of those things as an individual (as long as it is legal) and any view which might be seem by some as 'extreme' should not be associated with a Square and Compass in a Social Media post.

It all comes down to one of the great underpinnings of Freemasonry which is ever present but not really articulated. Respect. All need to respect each others rights to vary in things, but to lay our differences aside to unite in Brotherly Love. At the end of the day, Freemasonry is interested in what unites, not what divides, and I would be cautious about introducing topics with my Brethren which are likely to divide....
 

Elexir

Registered User
@Bloke Are you suggesting that the Grand Orient of Italy isnt recognised?

Lets not go into the diffrence between the name Grand Orient and Grand Lodge here, there are subtle diffrence in the internal politics and how its run but otherwise no diffrence.
There have also been other designations used by grand lodges like masonic provinces.
 

Grimm

Registered User
Like the Thumb Puppy, I agree, I don't think this is true. Look to the USA and the reaction in Freemasonry against the Ant-Masonic Party of the 1820's. Further, Freemasonry became a political football and in the USA, Freemasons reacted towards that.

In Italy, you had the Grand Master and Giuseppe Garibaldi taking on the Pope, but never forget that was in the context of the Italian Revolution and a temporal war against the Papal States... but also that they were members of a GRAND ORIENT not a Grand Lodge. There is the rub, many Grand Orients have got involved in politics, that is why the do not meet standards of recognition for many other GLs (but there are a few "Regular and Recongised" Grand Orients).

@Grimm one of the problems is where does the lines between "social justice" versus "politics" sit ? For one person "feed the poor" is a social justice statement, for others, it is a very political one. Here in Australia, free healthcare is seen as a basic human right, but in other countries it is highly politicized. The same blurred line can exist between "religion" and "spirituality", same for "politics" and "history".

One of the wonderful things about Freemasonry is we lay politics and religion aside and come together in Brotherly Love in a lodge. Preserving and promoting that is why we don't talk politics and religion. Outside the Lodge, the Freemason is free to pursue any of those things as an individual (as long as it is legal) and any view which might be seem by some as 'extreme' should not be associated with a Square and Compass in a Social Media post.

It all comes down to one of the great underpinnings of Freemasonry which is ever present but not really articulated. Respect. All need to respect each others rights to vary in things, but to lay our differences aside to unite in Brotherly Love. At the end of the day, Freemasonry is interested in what unites, not what divides, and I would be cautious about introducing topics with my Brethren which are likely to divide....


You're absolutely right. Wlhen they have come at me in this unbrotherly manner because of my political differences I have taken the time to remind them privately of their obligations and to take a step back because attacking another brother publicly with such slander not only looks bad on the fraternity but may also cause them issue as well.

It's just an interesting situation to be in.
 

Jim In Bozeman Montana

Registered User
You're absolutely right. Wlhen they have come at me in this unbrotherly manner because of my political differences I have taken the time to remind them privately of their obligations and to take a step back because attacking another brother publicly with such slander not only looks bad on the fraternity but may also cause them issue as well.

It's just an interesting situation to be in.

Brother, I am also a far-left radical, an activist, and a dedicated Anti-Fascist. And I will offer the opinion that the core values of Freemasonry are very much in alignment with social justice and democracy. How can we love our fellow man and work for our own improvement without challenging darkness and hatred in society? The trouble is that many people these days do not look at their own thoughts and behaviors critically and then self-correct. Do we really practice what we preach? Hypocrisy, to put it plainly. Unwise people also have difficulty separating criticism of actions and ideas from personal attacks. Being constructively critical of harmful actions and ignorant ideas is very Masonic in my opinion. Taking criticism personally, or making things personal against a brother, is falling into a trap of ego and is not constructive, right?

Not talking about how we feel with brothers, not sharing our true opinions with each other, and not trusting each other to be respectful brothers even in disagreement are all sure signs of dysfunction and failure to internalize Masonic principles. Fear-based thoughts and actions will not make us the better men we are striving to be. My opinion, anyhow.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
@Bloke Are you suggesting that the Grand Orient of Italy isnt recognised?

Lets not go into the diffrence between the name Grand Orient and Grand Lodge here, there are subtle diffrence in the internal politics and how its run but otherwise no diffrence.
There have also been other designations used by grand lodges like masonic provinces.

Not too sure if the Grand Orient (assuming there was only one in Rome) of Italy at the time of Garibaldi was recognized.
If the GM of either the Grand Orient or Grand Lodge did what was going on then today, they would loose recognition.
In my experience, a "Grand Lodge" is much more likely to be a recognised Body than a "Grand Orient", but maybe @Glen Cook would comment...
 
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