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Grand Lodge of Arkansas dictates upon Shrinedom

widows son

Premium Member
I wonder what the rest of the Shrine in other jurisdictions think of this mess? Also i wonder what brothers who are in the said jurisdiction who did not participate in the actions that lead to it being deemed irregular think?
 

relapse98

Registered User
I wholly agree with the GLoAR in their decision, hopefully these guys swallow their pride and smarten up.

I agree.

If you have to be a Master Mason in good standing to join an appendant body, you have to continue to be a Master Mason in good standing to stay a member. No longer good standing, no longer member of appendant body. Seems reasonable to me.
 

Pscyclepath

Premium Member
From the talk around various lodges and other gatherings, it's unlikely to happen any time soon. The Shrine in Arkansas is effectively gone, and no one is sure if there's anyone who can really put it back together. Over at Scimitar, the guys who started this in the first place are pretty much whistling in the wind and carrying on as before, but it's going to be a very small group in about a month or so.

Lots of Shrine members are really ticked off about it, but you've gotta make a choice... one or the other. You can follow their end of the story here: htt://www.scimitarshrine.com
 

widows son

Premium Member
I read the potentates message, it doesn't look like he budging, nor does it look like he feel like hes in the wrong.
 

tomasball

Premium Member
I have two thoughts on this. First of all, I gathered when this first hit the fan, that the mason in question was also a member in Iowa, and that the Grand Lodge of Iowa had not revoked his membership in response to the action by the GLoA. If that hasn't changed, then it really complicates the question. Second, Imperial Shrine doesn't help its case by arguing that the proceedings in Arkansas against this man weren't fair. It's not the Shrine's place to judge whether a Grand Lodge acted fairly or in a manner consistent with its own laws.
 

Pscyclepath

Premium Member
The Iowa argument was moot. Mr. Buffington lives, works, and was attending lodge & the Shrine here in Arkansas, inside the jurisdiction of the GLoAR. If I were to come down to Texas, I would still be obligated to abide by the laws of the GLoTX, no matter how we do things back hime in Arkansas. And it's not that one guy, who is long gone... it's a group of about 30 or 40 other Shriners who have continued to disregard the rules of the GL of AR with respect to attending tyled meetings of the Shrine here after the Shrine was declared clandestine way back in February. They have pretty much screwed themselves, as well as the other 6000 or so Arkansas Masons who were Shrine members following the rules.
 

DWSCHULZ

Premium Member
Brothers all,

Nobody likes to see the Shrine split the sheets with any recognized Grand Lodge. The world needs both Shriners and Freemasons (in light of recent events, it appears there is a difference). My technical, rabble-rousing question is this: If the GL of Arkansas refuses to recognize Shriners does that mean that ALL US Grand Lodges should in turn refuse to recognize Shriners as members of their Grand Lodge? I'm truly not trying to cause trouble, but Shriners are national, nay, international. If the Arkansas Shrine ignores the Grand Lodge of Arkansas and my Grand Lodge recognizes the Grand Lodge of Arkansas then musn't I, as a mainstream Freemason, must reject any member of the Shrine International as...I don't know...non-masons? I thought I had stuff figured out then a past grand master in my state forgot his obligation, "removed" my lawfully elected Grand Master and now I don't know who to trust....strange days...

Sincerely and Fraternally....(Skip...just kidding)
Daniel William Schulz
Euclid Lodge #58, Great Falls, Montana
Valley of Great Falls, ASSR
Great Falls York Rite Bodies
Hassan Grotto, Great Falls, Montana
Sadir Khan Grotto, Spokane, WA
AMD Peace Council
etc...etc...
perceived past master (ppm)
 

widows son

Premium Member
It's a tough call. Shriners are international, but this specific group of Shriners are at odds with the GL of Arkansas, and in my opinion are in the wrong. They need to realize that the Shriners wouldn't be Shriners without the GL and they set the bar. Unmasonic conduct should be dealt with through all appendant bodies upon the request of the GL without question.
 

Traveling Man

Premium Member
Brothers all,

Nobody likes to see the Shrine split the sheets with any recognized Grand Lodge. The world needs both Shriners and Freemasons (in light of recent events, it appears there is a difference). My technical, rabble-rousing question is this: If the GL of Arkansas refuses to recognize Shriners does that mean that ALL US Grand Lodges should in turn refuse to recognize Shriners as members of their Grand Lodge? I'm truly not trying to cause trouble, but Shriners are national, nay, international. If the Arkansas Shrine ignores the Grand Lodge of Arkansas and my Grand Lodge recognizes the Grand Lodge of Arkansas then musn't I, as a mainstream Freemason, must reject any member of the Shrine International as...I don't know...non-masons? I thought I had stuff figured out then a past grand master in my state forgot his obligation, "removed" my lawfully elected Grand Master and now I don't know who to trust....strange days...

Sincerely and Fraternally....(Skip...just kidding)
Daniel William Schulz
Euclid Lodge #58, Great Falls, Montana
Valley of Great Falls, ASSR
Great Falls York Rite Bodies
Hassan Grotto, Great Falls, Montana
Sadir Khan Grotto, Spokane, WA
AMD Peace Council
etc...etc...
perceived past master (ppm)

Its jurisdiction ends within Arkansas and applies only to their Grand jurisdiction. I.e. only the Brethren that are also Shriners and Brothers that come under the jurisdiction of Arkansas. Did I confuse you?
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Nobody likes to see the Shrine split the sheets with any recognized Grand Lodge. The world needs both Shriners and Freemasons (in light of recent events, it appears there is a difference). My technical, rabble-rousing question is this: If the GL of Arkansas refuses to recognize Shriners does that mean that ALL US Grand Lodges should in turn refuse to recognize Shriners as members of their Grand Lodge?

All Grand Lodges are sovereign. Thus, Arkansas only applies within Arkansas.
 

bjdeverell

Premium Member
Jurisdictional grievances caused a lot of schisms in Masonry back in the old days. But every Mason has to remember that the Grand Master is the man with the final word in his Jurisdiction. Appendant bodies have to understand that they Operate at the pleasure of the Grand Lodge. I'm York and Scottish but if the Grand Lodge labeled them clandestine today I would leave the Rites without question until it was resolved. I hope this all ends soon before it spirals into something terrible.
 

widows son

Premium Member
As do I. The shrine does a lot of good, and I'm sure just as much in AR, but these guys need to understand the GL has the final word. I hope they come back in the fold very soon.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
The letter contained within treads the border of the Shrine declaring itself a non-Masonic organization. It doesn't cross that border, but it does seem to appear to get close to it, especially when it makes the distinction that the Shrine may determine who is and isn't a Shriner independently of whether or not someone is or isn't a Master Mason.
 

Custer148

Registered User
I don't want to see this --- I know that Imperial Shrine for a couple of years has been trying to do away with the requirement of a man having to be a Master Mason in order to become a Shriner, this may be the push that is necessary for them to be successful. Still, if the Arkansas Grand Lodge still says that Arkansas MMs may not be Shriners, it would be a moot point at best.
 
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