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The Widow's Sons

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Colby K

Premium Member
Did you look into Temple Guard (http://www.templeguardmc.com/). I just joined. I don't know how much of a presence we have in Texas but I know we do have members there. You will have to provide proof that you are master mason for TGMC as well.

Also, the TGMC only has a two piece patch instead of three piece.
 
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Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Yet again- Texas Masons would need to check & see if TGMC is approved to be associated with.
 

Mac

Moderator
Premium Member
Based on the website, it looks like the Temple Guard also allows EAs and FCs to join. Though I assume this can be modified to meet local requirements. And, as mentioned, they would have to be recognized by the GLoT.
 

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
Did you look into Temple Guard (http://www.templeguardmc.com/). I just joined. I don't know how much of a presence we have in Texas but I know we do have members there. You will have to provide proof that you are master mason for TGMC as well.

Also, the TGMC only has a two piece patch instead of three piece.

Any website that has music on it, is an automatic failure in my opinion, also the typos are not cool.

S&F,
-Bro Vick
 
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Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
I thought that a mason was to be judged by what was on the inside and not on his outward appearance. It seems there are some that want to judge me differently because I ride a motorcycle and wear a black leather vest. Perhaps those are the ones that need to be judged.

Okay, this is going to be the last time I am going to write a statement on this "it is the inner not the outer" line. I completely agree that as Masons we need to judge the internal and not the external. That if a man who is a janitor or ditch digger comes into a lodge to join, we have to purely judge him on his internal merits and not profession. That man should not be denied the light of Freemasonry because of their appearance (relating to their occupation), and status in society. This is an endearing quality makes it so Freemasonry has safety guards not to turn into a good 'ol boy club or encourage mercenary motives for joining. To say nothing of the great diversity it brings our fraternity.

You have made the choice outside of your occupation to ride a motorcycle and dress the part. You dress according to the norm and standards of a culture that you most likely aren't dependent on for income. If people make active statements regarding their clothing, tattoos, and piercings, than I and others will judge you as such. You made the active choice to wear the leather vest, wear patches, look like a tough guy. I know you have a choice as I have a great co-worker, and he rides a motorcycle. He in no way dresses that way when riding, so, no you don't have to dress that way.

So you can't have your cake and eat it to, if you don't want us to judge you on your appearance on something that you have complete control over than you need to weigh that when entering a lodge. Yes, my mother lodge has great brothers who ride motorcycles and play the part, but don't think that they don't know that if they make an active choice to dress a certain way, that men are going to judge them for that choice.

You need to weigh it, and I have no problem with people judging me, as this page and comments made towards me people have accused me of all sorts of things. But a matter of fact of society is that we do judge people to some degree on their outer appearance, especially if they make the active choice to dress that way.

Hopefully this is not too offensive, but I see a double standard being applied here, and it bothers me.

S&F,
-Bro Vick
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Okay, this is going to be the last time I am going to write a statement on this "it is the inner not the outer" line. I completely agree that as Masons we need to judge the internal and not the external. That if a man who is a janitor or ditch digger comes into a lodge to join, we have to purely judge him on his internal merits and not profession. That man should not be denied the light of Freemasonry because of their appearance (relating to their occupation), and status in society. This is an endearing quality makes it so Freemasonry has safety guards not to turn into a good 'ol boy club or encourage mercenary motives for joining. To say nothing of the great diversity it brings our fraternity.

You have made the choice outside of your occupation to ride a motorcycle and dress the part. You dress according to the norm and standards of a culture that you most likely aren't dependent on for income. If people make active statements regarding their clothing, tattoos, and piercings, than I and others will judge you as such. You made the active choice to wear the leather vest, wear patches, look like a tough guy. I know you have a choice as I have a great co-worker, and he rides a motorcycle. He in no way dresses that way when riding, so, no you don't have to dress that way.

So you can't have your cake and eat it to, if you don't want us to judge you on your appearance on something that you have complete control over than you need to weigh that when entering a lodge. Yes, my mother lodge has great brothers who ride motorcycles and play the part, but don't think that they don't know that if they make an active choice to dress a certain way, that men are going to judge them for that choice.

You need to weigh it, and I have no problem with people judging me, as this page and comments made towards me people have accused me of all sorts of things. But a matter of fact of society is that we do judge people to some degree on their outer appearance, especially if they make the active choice to dress that way.

Hopefully this is not too offensive, but I see a double standard being applied here, and it bothers me.

S&F,
-Bro Vick

When I was young I was I wore close my parants told me to ware (Slacks and collor shirt and sundays suit). When I was a teenager I wore Blue Jeans and t-shirts. When I started into bussiness I wore bussiness close. I was building embedded controls and writeing code that controls power plants, and equpment in the electric system. and that is when I found out it was the internal. I was on call and would have to come in all times of the day or night wareing what ever I was wareing we had a SLA of 15 min. in the power industery. I worked quicker when I had shorts or blue jeans or what ever. I went to my manager one day and ask what it would take for me to move in to managment and he said "you are a techie and you will aways be a techie". I replyed with the words bull shit. I quit wareing the bussiness monster uniform I grew my hair long to force them to fire me, but that backfired when they told me I was an over achiver and no mater how grundge I got they could not replace me and they need me as a techie. I had made a name for my self in the industery and another company came to me and said they would make me a manager and they liked my long hair. I am now a Director for that other company and still don't dress the part. Everyone that has got to know me knows that it is there loss if they care how I look and not mine. I think your co-worker can have his cake and eat it to if he is secure in knowlage. I was told by one of the costmers I interface with that I was like Sampson and if I cut my hair to much I might loose my bussiness abalities. If someone judges based on looks they are the looser in life and may not be as sucsessful as they could be. I do have and ware 10 suits, 2 tuxes but it is when I want to and not to just look like everyone else there. Which picture is me all of these including my avatar.

2012-11-10_08-16-30_361.jpg2012-09-13_09-48-24_430 small.jpg
DSC00477.jpg2012-12-07_21-10-13_745.jpg
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Yet again- Texas Masons would need to check & see if TGMC is approved to be associated with.


This is what the TGMC says and this is why the GLoT statment cause me constranations.
"
We are the TEMPLE GUARD MC, a Masonic Motorcycle Club made up of Master Masons, Fellow Craft and Entered Apprentice who just happen to be Brothers who share the love and enjoyment of motorcycles. The TEMPLE GUARD MC is not governed by any Grand Lodge as a club. As Master Masons we are governed by each of our Grand Lodges of the state or country in which we belong. The TEMPLE GUARD MC are Brothers who takes their Colors seriously. We are a Masonic Motorcycle Club with traditional motorcycle values. It's a lifestyle to us, not a hobby. A TEMPLE GUARD MC patch is something you cannot buy. We are Proud of what we represent. All TEMPLE GUARD MC members are Bikers who belong to the oldest fraternity in the world and we are true to our Masonic and TEMPLE GUARD MC Brothers. We are not 1%'ers and we do not claim any territory. Masons are World wide.
"
and the words of the GLoT that says
"---------Texas Masons are not permitted to belong to, or be identified with, the organization known as “Widows Sons Masonic Motorcycle Riders Association” unless and until such organization is recognized by the Grand Lodge of Texas, and to do so constitutes a Masonic Disciplinary Violation. This Edict is effective immediately. Acts contrary to this edict will result in Masonic Disciplinary action against the violator.
------------"

The word's "permitted to belong to, or be identified with" are very strong when motorcycle groups have statments like TGMC. Is there some sort of precived lack of morality and is this based on external? I really need for someone to look at me and tell me if I am a good person or not just by my looks. I know you can not.

When I am riding I can look at the vest's of other riders and know who is who. If you see a Masonic symble on one you can at least know they maybe someone you may want to hang out with. If they have a 1% dimond and it will be a dimand you don't want to even acknolage them. MC, RC and indivuals ware there alligens on there vest because they are proud to be a part of that group. the Blue Knights (Police), The dragen slayers (fire department) and the Canceler's (postman) all are proud to be who they are and ware it on there vests. Are Masons not proude of who they are?
http://www.blueknightstx39.org/Welcome.html
http://www.dragonslayersmc.com/
http://www.cancellersrc.com/

I am sorry if it looks like I am fighting but it is hard to brake through old ideas.
 

Bro_Vick

Moderator
Premium Member
When I was young I was I wore close my parants told me to ware (Slacks and collor shirt and sundays suit). When I was a teenager I wore Blue Jeans and t-shirts. When I started into bussiness I wore bussiness close. I was building embedded controls and writeing code that controls power plants, and equpment in the electric system. and that is when I found out it was the internal. I was on call and would have to come in all times of the day or night wareing what ever I was wareing we had a SLA of 15 min. in the power industery. I worked quicker when I had shorts or blue jeans or what ever. I went to my manager one day and ask what it would take for me to move in to managment and he said "you are a techie and you will aways be a techie". I replyed with the words bull shit. I quit wareing the bussiness monster uniform I grew my hair long to force them to fire me, but that backfired when they told me I was an over achiver and no mater how grundge I got they could not replace me and they need me as a techie. I had made a name for my self in the industery and another company came to me and said they would make me a manager and they liked my long hair. I am now a Director for that other company and still don't dress the part. Everyone that has got to know me knows that it is there loss if they care how I look and not mine. I think your co-worker can have his cake and eat it to if he is secure in knowlage. I was told by one of the costmers I interface with that I was like Sampson and if I cut my hair to much I might loose my bussiness abalities. If someone judges based on looks they are the looser in life and may not be as sucsessful as they could be. I do have and ware 10 suits, 2 tuxes but it is when I want to and not to just look like everyone else there. Which picture is me all of these including my avatar.

I have no idea what the point of this was, but to tell me that you don't conform, but want to conform to a motorcycle club, because you are not a conformist.

Got it.

If you can't see the hypocrisy in all of this, then there really isn't a need to continue the conversation. Congratulations on all of your successes, I guess that is what you are looking for with this long diatribe and posting pictures of yourself.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
I have no idea what the point of this was, but to tell me that you don't conform, but want to conform to a motorcycle club, because you are not a conformist.

Got it.

If you can't see the hypocrisy in all of this, then there really isn't a need to continue the conversation. Congratulations on all of your successes, I guess that is what you are looking for with this long diatribe and posting pictures of yourself.

Reread you post you have a peice in there about judging on looks.... The point is....I do have cake and I am eating it right now.. and you are missing out I would share it with you if but I have been judged not that I can't have cake...

Throwing the word Hyprocriy at me tells me you are grasping at straws.

No hypocrisy here just a deferent point of view I am proud of being a Motorcyclest and Mason. I show and tell everyone what I am proud of that is why I ware the back patch I do. It is a Family emblem! Why can't everyone not be afrade to show their pride in Masonary by belonging to the Mosinic RC that they chose. The statment by the GLoT says you have to belong to the RC we say and if you want to belong to anyother you can be disiplined.

If I were to join the the police department and then join the Blue Knights and put a mosinic patch on my vest I would not be disiplined.

I can take the pictures off if you would like, but they were to show you people have many was of dress and outward aperance for you to judge as bad that is why it is the internal and the external. To see the internal you have to get to know someone because it can not be pre-judged.

I was not attacking anything except the way the edict was worded agenst the WS and it is very unfortunate that it was worded the way it was. At this time I do regulator in the energy industery and if I had ever worded something like that FERC would have come down on me like a ton of bricks. Also judging someone for their typo's. don't look at my post they call me mr. typo.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Bro. Varnell,

The Grand Lodge of Texas, just like every other Grand Lodge, is a voluntary organization and, just like any other organization, has rules & a code of conduct for its members. The simple answer is that, if one feels he cannot abide by the rules of an organization he voluntarily chose to join,his only honorable course of action is to resign from the organization.
 
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jvarnell

Premium Member
I guess I don't understand how a foram works! I always thought they were to insite discustion and when I see a thread that people are saying something that makes me wonder if only some ideas are being discused I try to enter other point of views. I know it is voluntary I also know that words like disiplined are word that make people beleive they are being lorded over. The way i would have worded it is that the WS is not a reconized orgination, then stated a list of of why. I would have also stated that as a Mason we should not be a part of this group untill they are reconized and left it at that. The word Disiplined is not a word normilay use by volintary orgs.
 

Bill Lins

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I know it is voluntary I also know that words like disiplined are word that make people beleive they are being lorded over.

That entirely depends upon one's outlook.

The word Disiplined is not a word normilay use by volintary orgs.

No one ever claimed that Freemasonry is a "normal" organization. Instead of complaining about the things you perceive to be wrong with the Fraternity, you would be well advised to apply yourself to your studies. As you gain in Masonic knowledge you will begin to learn why we do things the way we do, and you should begin to understand why Freemasonry is different from the other organizations with which you are familiar.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
I do try to apply what i have learned always. And i know freemasonary teaches us a how to present our self's. One of the things i have learned it is the internal and if i ware the colors of a masonic riding club everyone in that circle know from a glance who we are and what we stand for.

Also i know what the word free means and it is us by our usa founding father who were masons. Displinary action for free assocation was not in any of the thing they wrote. The ws is a group of mosinic brothers in many states that ride together. They do have a patch to show others they are a group of masonic brothers.

The problem i see is that they ASKED to be reconized by the GLoT. The GLoT could has just said no we don'tthink they symbloise what we stand for. But displnary action for free assocation!
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Discipline is part of a free association--or are you saying that, if someone within the Masons decided to openly frequent prostitutes while advertising that he was a Mason, it would be improper for the fraternity to take action on that?
 

scialytic

Premium Member
I do try to apply what i have learned always. And i know freemasonary teaches us a how to present our self's. One of the things i have learned it is the internal and if i ware the colors of a masonic riding club everyone in that circle know from a glance who we are and what we stand for.

Also i know what the word free means and it is us by our usa founding father who were masons. Displinary action for free assocation was not in any of the thing they wrote. The ws is a group of mosinic brothers in many states that ride together. They do have a patch to show others they are a group of masonic brothers.

The problem i see is that they ASKED to be reconized by the GLoT. The GLoT could has just said no we don'tthink they symbloise what we stand for. But displnary action for free assocation!

I've been watching this discussion for some time now. What strikes me as absurd is that a young Brother like yourself has not taken heed to the guidance from our more mature Brothers that frequent this forum. The same points have been explained several times over. That was disconcerting in itself, but to see you write so glibly about edicts from our Most Worshipful Grand Masters and laws voted into place by the Past Masters, sitting Masters, and Wardens of our Texas Lodges is incredulous. It appears that you are having difficulty conforming to the rules, regulations, and customs of our beloved Fraternity.

If a Brother in my Lodge refused to heed the good counsel whispered into his ear and continue to act refractory and argumentative when approached with sage advice, I would likely protest that he (if not a Master Mason already) not be Raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason and afford him more time to learn his working tools. If he was a Master Mason, I would strongly consider bringing the fact that he rode with the Widows Sons to the Worshipful Master's attention or even file Masonic charges myself if I felt strongly enough about it.

My personal opinion is that you have not shown proficiency in the preceding degrees--based on reading your comments on this, and several other threads. As I write this, I will also perform a self-evaluation of sorts on myself, because I know I have faults that need work as well. I pray that you see yours and that you can work them out before somebody in your Lodge comes to the same conclusion that I have...and persues instructing you utilizing disciplinary tools.

I say all this in the kindest way possible. It is not my intent to embarrass or hurt you. I want you to continue to grow and apply Masonic principles to your daily life. Please take this as constructive feedback, because that is how I am meaning it to be received.

Take care Brother.
 
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jvarnell

Premium Member
I've been watching this discussion for some time now. What strikes me as absurd is that a young Brother like yourself has not taken heed to the guidance from our more mature Brothers that frequent this forum. The same points have been explained several times over. That was disconcerting in itself, but to see you write so glibly about edicts from our Most Worshipful Grand Masters and laws voted into place by the Past Masters, sitting Masters, and Wardens of our Texas Lodges is incredulous. It appears that you are having difficulty conforming to the rules, regulations, and customs of our beloved Fraternity.

If a Brother in my Lodge refused to heed the good counsel whispered into his ear and continue to act refractory and argumentative when approached with sage advice, I would likely protest that he (if not a Master Mason already) not be Raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason and afford him more time to learn his working tools. If he was a Master Mason, I would strongly consider bringing the fact that he rode with the Widows Sons to the Worshipful Master's attention or even file Masonic charges myself if I felt strongly enough about it.

My personal opinion is that you have not shown proficiency in the preceding degrees--based on reading your comments on this, and several other threads. As I write this, I will also perform a self-evaluation of sorts on myself, because I know I have faults that need work as well. I pray that you see yours and that you can work them out before somebody in your Lodge comes to the same conclusion that I have...and persues instructing you utilizing disciplinary tools.

I say all this in the kindest way possible. It is not my intent to embarrass or hurt you. I want you to continue to grow and apply Masonic principles to your daily life. Please take this as constructive feedback, because that is how I am meaning it to be received.

Please don't take this as an act of defiance but a discusssion, I have not defied anything I have only been questioning.
Take care Brother.

At this point I need to say OMG. there is a defrence of self displine and being displine because of an indivuals opinion. I did not ever say i was not going to take the concel of others i was questioning it so i would understand being a mason dosen`t mean to blindly follow someone but to gain light because of them. this is a discusion on this forum and a refusal. If any of you think it is a refusal then you are trying to stop discustion. Do any of the tools state that we should not be questioning things? I have the disapline to be the best mane ever but that is not the same as someone imposing on me.

Discustion of a subject gives you knowlage and knowlage gives you light. Why is discustion bad if it dosen't provoke thought. If there are no statments then that is an answer to the discustion.

As I have stated I have not been in the WS i just don't understand why the edict was writen and how it is Masonic. The way to whiper in my eart is to PM me.

Take care back at you.
 

scialytic

Premium Member
The way to whiper in my eart is to PM me.

Absolutely valid point. Though I never said that I whispered in your ear, but know several Brothers that have and several more that have posted directly on this and many other threads. There are some things going on that are much deeper than this discussion and nobody is trying to silence you. We're trying to get through to you. Reread these posts and PMs and hopefully you'll see that.
 

LRG

Premium Member
Jvarnell, I have read too many post by you that makes me question your obligations for which you should have learned. I understand that we all have disscussion over many topics that are past down to us by our Grand Lodge. But your attempt to either create doubt or rebellion for deciding factors and conclusions from our Grand lodge only strengthens my beliefs that all non Master Masons should continue in the work and hopefully will understand the most basic foundation to our Craft. Respect to our Fraternity.
 

rpbrown

Premium Member
Okay, this is going to be the last time I am going to write a statement on this "it is the inner not the outer" line. I completely agree that as Masons we need to judge the internal and not the external. That if a man who is a janitor or ditch digger comes into a lodge to join, we have to purely judge him on his internal merits and not profession. That man should not be denied the light of Freemasonry because of their appearance (relating to their occupation), and status in society. This is an endearing quality makes it so Freemasonry has safety guards not to turn into a good 'ol boy club or encourage mercenary motives for joining. To say nothing of the great diversity it brings our fraternity.

You have made the choice outside of your occupation to ride a motorcycle and dress the part. You dress according to the norm and standards of a culture that you most likely aren't dependent on for income. If people make active statements regarding their clothing, tattoos, and piercings, than I and others will judge you as such. You made the active choice to wear the leather vest, wear patches, look like a tough guy. I know you have a choice as I have a great co-worker, and he rides a motorcycle. He in no way dresses that way when riding, so, no you don't have to dress that way.

So you can't have your cake and eat it to, if you don't want us to judge you on your appearance on something that you have complete control over than you need to weigh that when entering a lodge. Yes, my mother lodge has great brothers who ride motorcycles and play the part, but don't think that they don't know that if they make an active choice to dress a certain way, that men are going to judge them for that choice.

You need to weigh it, and I have no problem with people judging me, as this page and comments made towards me people have accused me of all sorts of things. But a matter of fact of society is that we do judge people to some degree on their outer appearance, especially if they make the active choice to dress that way.

Hopefully this is not too offensive, but I see a double standard being applied here, and it bothers me.

S&F,
-Bro Vick

Okay, lets look at this in another direction. I am wearing weastern style boots, Wrangler blue jeans, a tee shirt or button up shirt, a black leather vest with a square and compass on it, a cowboy hat, and get out of a pick up with a bale of hay in the bed.

Now, I have the same boots, same jeans, same shirt, same vest but I have on a helmet instead of a cowboy hat, and get off of a motorcycle instaed of out of a truck.

I am the same man, same clothes just different hat and mode of transportation. Why am I different? I wear the clothes in the first senario because of what I do. When done, I ride a motorcycle without changing clothes.

That is me. Same man, same clothes no change in MY attitude. My occupation nor my means of transportation has anything to do with the man that I am. That is what the brothers at my lodge saw as well as several other lodges I have attended. JUST ME. No cake to eat. JUST ME.
 
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