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What is "within Freemasonry"

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Do we speak with two mouths regarding what is and is not "within Freemasonry"? We tell ourselves and the world, over and over, that Freemasonry consists entirely and exclusively of the three Blue Lodge degrees. Nothing else is Freemasonry.

Then we have books written by Masons for Masons that state "Within Freemasonry itself, in the fourth degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite..." (Hogan, T. 2009. The 32 Secret Paths of Solomon: A New Examination of the Qabbalah in Freemasonry. T. Hogan, self-published?) This is only one of thousands of such quotes that could be amassed to this effect.

How can we snuffle on about how the "appendant" bodies do not define Freemasonry and are merely auxiliary to the truth of Freemasonry when we, ourselves, go around telling each other that the "appendant" bodies are "within" Freemasonry?

Flat-out, what is "within" Freemasonry? Are the teachings of the Scottish Rite "within" Freemasonry (and, thus, normative) or are they "appendant to" (and, thus, actually not to be seen as normative for) Freemasonry? The same could be asked of the York Rite and other degree-granting bodies.

I don't expect a straight answer, but I thought I'd ask.
 
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MarkR

Premium Member
Do we speak with two mouths regarding what is and is not "within Freemasonry"? We tell ourselves and the world, over and over, that Freemasonry consists entirely and exclusively of the three Blue Lodge degrees. Nothing else is Freemasonry.
Well, I've never said that.

I'll repeat the "no degree is higher than a Master Mason" line, but I believe that the Scottish and York Rites provide "more light in Masonry" so I'd never say that they are not Freemasonry.
 

BroBill

Site Benefactor
Site Benefactor
Do we speak with two mouths regarding what is and is not "within Freemasonry"? We tell ourselves and the world, over and over, that Freemasonry consists entirely and exclusively of the three Blue Lodge degrees. Nothing else is Freemasonry.

Then we have books written by Masons for Masons that state "Within Freemasonry itself, in the fourth degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite..." (Hogan, T. 2009. The 32 Secret Paths of Solomon: A New Examination of the Qabbalah in Freemasonry. T. Hogan, self-published?) This is only one of thousands of such quotes that could be amassed to this effect.

How can we snuffle on about how the "appendant" bodies do not define Freemasonry and are merely auxiliary to the truth of Freemasonry when we, ourselves, go around telling each other that the "appendant" bodies are "within" Freemasonry?

Flat-out, what is "within" Freemasonry? Are the teachings of the Scottish Rite "within" Freemasonry (and, thus, normative) or are they "appendant to" (and, thus, actually not to be seen as normative for) Freemasonry? The same could be asked of the York Rite and other degree-granting bodies.

I don't expect a straight answer, but I thought I'd ask.

The first three degrees (EA,FC, MM) are just that, the FIRST three. The first three degrees are the required degrees for full recognition as a Master Mason. No further degrees offered through any other body (York or Scottish Rite), make you any more of a Mason or any "higher".

The York Rite of Freemasonry (the Texas form of Freemasonry) is comprised of the the first three degrees (Blue Lodge), four Chapter degrees and two Council degrees. The four Chapter and two Council degrees build on, or complete the first three. The three Blue Lodge degrees together with the six Chapter and Council degrees are the required minimum degrees to be a York Rite Mason, but there is an optional third Council degree that can be taken if/when offered. Completing the York Rite is the Commandery which is not required to be recognized a York Rite Mason but is the fourth body of the York Rite of Freemasonry.

The Scottish Rite is similar in that the first three degrees are provided in the Blue Lodge and the following degrees in the Scottish Rite. While I'm a Scottish Rite Mason, it's not my strong suit. I devote most of my time and energy to the Chapter and Council. The Scottish Rite degrees are beautiful and highly informative, but they differ in style and form. I'm sure a brother with more expertise in the Scottish Rite can clarify further.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
The first three degrees (EA,FC, MM) are just that, the FIRST three.


Therefore, these other bodies aren't really just appendant? Blue Lodge is just the baby steps? Master Mason isn't the top, and the rest don't hang beneath (append--that's what "append" means, after all) that? Likewise, if the teachings of the Blue Lodge are flawed and incomplete--which is what men like Pike hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer over and over (cue the weasel words about Pike not being an infallible authority), why say that Master Mason is the top of anything?

Are York and Scottish normative for Freemasonry or not? If so, then they are not merely appendant.
 

Brent Heilman

Premium Member
Master Mason is the top. Once you are raised to Master Mason you cannot be anything higher. It does not matter that in the Scottish Rite they number up to the 33°, you will never be higher than a Master Mason. Just because someone finishes all the SR degrees and YR degrees it doesn't make him a super MM. I have been through the SR and it expands upon the lessons from the Blue Lodge degrees. I would never say the 3 Blue Lodge degrees are baby steps. I know one Brother that just received his 60 year pin last month and has never been through the SR, YR, Shrine, or any other appendant body. Would I consider him lower than me because I have gone through the SR and received my 32°? I think not.
 

jvarnell

Premium Member
Therefore, these other bodies aren't really just appendant? Blue Lodge is just the baby steps? Master Mason isn't the top, and the rest don't hang beneath (append--that's what "append" means, after all) that? Likewise, if the teachings of the Blue Lodge are flawed and incomplete--which is what men like Pike hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer over and over (cue the weasel words about Pike not being an infallible authority), why say that Master Mason is the top of anything?

Are York and Scottish normative for Freemasonry or not? If so, then they are not merely appendant.

I am only a new MM but what I have learned is that first 3 degrees are a minimum on this road we are travling. We may have enough in us at this time but always have growing room. The Blue Lodge is not flawed or incomplete there is just more we can gain. When I started doing metal shaping I got to a point where I could make a replacement or patch panel for any car part. Is this all I need. It may be but I think the more I learn about how the metal reacts I can make parts better and faster. So was the first part of my learning or flawed or incomplete I could do it all or can i make things better.

Sorry for the analogy this what came to my head when I read the post and I just said it.......
 

BroBill

Site Benefactor
Site Benefactor
Therefore, these other bodies aren't really just appendant? Blue Lodge is just the baby steps? Master Mason isn't the top, and the rest don't hang beneath (append--that's what "append" means, after all) that? Likewise, if the teachings of the Blue Lodge are flawed and incomplete--which is what men like Pike hammer hammer hammer hammer hammer over and over (cue the weasel words about Pike not being an infallible authority), why say that Master Mason is the top of anything?

Are York and Scottish normative for Freemasonry or not? If so, then they are not merely appendant.

First, I like the way Bro. Heilman explained it just a moment ago. Here's how I normally explain it. Scottish Rite and the Chapter, Council, & Commandery (on the York side) are continuations of your Masonic journey. In the Blue Lodge you are provided the minimum required "light" to be recognized a Master Mason. Many brothers desire more light and continue their journey through the degrees provided through either the Scottish Rite or through Chapter/Council/Commandery.

The additional degrees provide additional lessons much like formal, higher education. You may received your master's degree in business finance & accounting, but you may need to take some further classes that the "baseline" master's cirricula do not include to gain the background in a specialized field in accounting. This doesn't make you a "super" accountant, nor does it make your master's a "super" master's degree. It merely provides additional instruction based on your interest or need.

If your basic question is really "are the York and Scottish Rites Masonic bodies?", then yes, they are recognized masonic bodies.
 

widows son

Premium Member
What is "within Freemasonry"

Great explanation BroBill. Also I think it's safe to say that Pike advocated the necessity of the other degrees for the speculative mason, as additional light. As we know things aren't complete in the third degree, and both sides have their way finishing of the story, with continued Masonic light. As stated before MM is the requirement to prove one can gain more knowledge. In England however, in order to sit in their blue lodge, one must have the royal arch degree, which completes the blue lodge degrees. So the RAM degree is a recognized appendant degree that completes the blue lodge MM degree.
 

Mac

Moderator
Premium Member
They are masonic avenues for further philosophical discussion, but I see the Blue Lodge as a hub. We may leave and explore other areas, but I would hope you would return to Lodge to participate in that group which initiated you. When you "come back," no matter what you've done in the YR, SR, etc, you don't wear those honors and awards, because they were not earned in the Lodge.
 

widows son

Premium Member
What is "within Freemasonry"

I like that, hub. Also one can bring back to the lodge the continued light they've gained from exploring outside the hub.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
First, I like the way Bro. Heilman explained it just a moment ago. Here's how I normally explain it. Scottish Rite and the Chapter, Council, & Commandery (on the York side) are continuations of your Masonic journey. In the Blue Lodge you are provided the minimum required "light" to be recognized a Master Mason.

Therefore, since it is merely the "minimum required", Blue Lodge is necessary but not sufficient. It's just the lowest bar, but not all that high, in and of itself. That's the masonic doctrine?
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Re: What is "within Freemasonry"

And what of how Pike gobsmacked the Blue Lodge over and over as being inferior in knowledge and teaching, compared to the Scottish Rite? Should Pike just be ignored? And if ignored on this, then why not completely?
 

widows son

Premium Member
What is "within Freemasonry"

I don't think he believed the blue lodge to be inferior. He always relates masonry to the mysteries, in which there was always an outer "lesser" followed by the inner or "greater"mysteries. Lesser and greater don't reflect any superiority, but rather a starting point. As we know after the blue lodge one can continue their Masonic light in either appendant body, so like Pike said, after receiving the lesser mysteries, in the outer portico, one can continue on into the sanctum sanctorm to receive the greater mysteries.
 

BroBill

Site Benefactor
Site Benefactor
Therefore, since it is merely the "minimum required", Blue Lodge is necessary but not sufficient. It's just the lowest bar, but not all that high, in and of itself. That's the masonic doctrine?

I think you may be over thinking this a bit. Blue Lodge is totally sufficient and is absolutely required to become a Master Mason. All freemasons begin their masonic journey the same way with a "baseline" of knowledge. Depending on the mason and his needs/wants/interests and depending on what he personally wants from masonry, Blue Lodge may completely sufficient for his individual need.

Men approach masonry for different reasons and have different expectations and desires. Blue Lodges prepare every mason for his own unique journey. They provide the necessary knowledge to understand and relate to fellow masons and to understand the underlying "story". Some masons desire more "light" and choose to continue their personal journey through either a York or Scottish Rite path. It's really no more complicated than that.

I'm sure you also know that Pike is somewhat controversial and I've personally never recommended his writings for new masons. He's views are interesting and he provides a insight into how some things came about. But he is just one mason among millions with his own opinions, preferences, and expectations. I've read some of Pike's writings and find them interesting, but by no means definitive or "directive". There are many credible masonic authors and historians which add to our understanding of our fraternity. I've found that focusing too much on Pike too early in a masonic journey can create some level of confusion. Just my opinion... one among millions....
 

MarkR

Premium Member
All Masons are encouraged to make advancement in Masonic knowledge. We are TAUGHT that the path to light is not complete after receiving the MM degree, that we are encouraged to seek further understanding. The degrees of the York/Scottish Rite are a good way to work on your Masonic knowledge. Doing those degrees no more says that the three degrees of the Blue Lodge are insufficient than does reading Masonic books, which I do every day.
 

timgould

Registered User
I think we may be getting hung up on semantics here. Masonry is much like Christianity. Once a person receives and accepts the Son, that person becomes a Christian. There is nothing greater from there than to be in the Family of God. But, that Christian has a choice to stay there, with the limited relationship, or purposely pursue more knowledge in order to grow internally. He/she is no more important, no more righteous, no more holy than the day they received Christ. But they have a greater reward in that they know the GAOTU better…. Thus improving the quality of their life and equipping them to better serve mankind.

I see the journey of a Mason the same way.
 

calo

Registered User
Re: What is "within Freemasonry"

And what of how Pike gobsmacked the Blue Lodge over and over as being inferior in knowledge and teaching, compared to the Scottish Rite? Should Pike just be ignored? And if ignored on this, then why not completely?

The blue lodge is inferior to the teachings. The blue lodge is meant to represent the stages of a man's life. The appendent bodies are additions to the degrees. The arcane symbolism with in the SR degrees cant and shouldnt be made available to anyone who has not mentally reached adult hood, masonically speaking.

Same as the public education system. You don't enroll someone who doesn't know proper grammar into a comprehensive writing course.

Oh, and no. Pike should never be ignored.
 

BroBill

Site Benefactor
Site Benefactor
Re: What is "within Freemasonry"

The blue lodge is inferior to the teachings. The blue lodge is meant to represent the stages of a man's life. The appendent bodies are additions to the degrees. The arcane symbolism with in the SR degrees cant and shouldnt be made available to anyone who has not mentally reached adult hood, masonically speaking.

Same as the public education system. You don't enroll someone who doesn't know proper grammar into a comprehensive writing course.

Oh, and no. Pike should never be ignored.

I don't advocate ignoring Pike, but I do think his writing requires a lot of reading of other writers to provide some context in which consider his views. I stated I don't recommend Pike for NEW masons, but I do think Pike should be read as part of a broad education on mansonry.
 

widows son

Premium Member
What is "within Freemasonry"

I agree with you on that bro. Bill. Pike draws from many sources, and to make sense of what he is saying, one should read the relative literature. Calo, I wouldn't say that the blue lodge is inferior to anything. Without the blue lodge there wouldn't be the Scottish Rite, and the York Rite for that matter. Pike stated the blue lodge degrees to be the Lesser degrees of the craft, as in the outer, where the man becomes acquainted with the craft, but he didn't mean inferior. As you've stated blue masonry can be seen as the stages of life, the sublime degree of a master mason being adulthood. With that degree one is able to continue their Masonic journey for light in the other masonic degrees. Remember though that the "outer" or blue lodge degrees are the starting point for further profound truths that can be found in the Masonic order. The blue lodge prepares the mans mind and heart to receive the information the other degrees have to offer. So in no way is the blue lodge inferior.
 

scialytic

Premium Member
They are different. It probably also has a lot to do with the person as well as to where they end up travalling through on their Journey. This topic was brought up in a fairly confrontational way, or at least in a manner that can easily lead to argument and disharmony. I would be hard-pressed to find a Brother that says a 32* Mason is above a Master Mason. We all clearly understand the heirarchy in that respect.

There are other considerations that do need to be recognized about the appendent bodies. There are many accomplishments and positions that should be looked at differently and with reverence, but that has to do with responsibility, accomplishment and authority. Again, this thread was started in an antagonistic manner so most answers can be taken out of context. We are all Master Masons (if you are) and that is all that matters. The rest is further Light and that only changes the internal qualities of the man, but doesn't make them *more* of a Mason...just maybe *more* enlightened...

(Why is there always somebody that wants to pick fights? ... ... ... we should be bettering eachother through Brotherly Love not brute force!)
 
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