Women Freemasons

cemab4y said:

There are women Freemasons. See http://www.co-masonry.org

There are lodges that are for women only, and there are lodges that accept both men and women. None of these organizations are recognized by the mother Grand Lodge of England, and all of them are considered "Clandestine and Irregular".

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UGLE calls them "regular with the exception of gender issues". It's in the gray zone between regular and irregular. They are not recognized and as such we should not try to pass the tiler at any of their meetings. Their social events have no such issue. We have social events were non-members are welcome. So do they. We have no bars to attending such open social events. If such a lodge can be found. Ah, now there's the key that can be used for a pragmatic approach to the issue.

But where are these lodges? There are very few CoMason lodges in the US. There's at least one women only lodge somewhere in California but have fun trying to actually find a women only lodge or a CoMason lodge. To me that is how the matter gets settled. Whether I consider them Masons is irrelevant given their rarity. We are a hundred or a thousand times more popular in size of membership. Taken in that perspective it's a tempest in a teapot. Should we start accepting women? The result may well be shrinking to one percent our current size. I'll pass on the suggestion. Are the organizations Masonic? By GL technicality no. If I see a grand hailing sign I'm not taking time to check dues cards. Once I have time to check dues cards I will not try to pass the tiler in such an organization. Do I care if they call themselves Masons? Not really given their tiny size.

There is something in the constitution of some men that values associating with other men. We're the ones who keep coming back.

There is something in the constitution of some women that values associating with other women. They are the ones that join groups for women.

But how popular are men in groups designed for women that happen to allow men (or boys/girls in the case of Girl Scouts allowing boys because they sell cookies and are therefore technically a business subject to non-discrimination). Turn this around and that's exactly why lodges that admit women are one percent of less of our membership.

I am a traditionalist. I reject allowing women in and i will not recognise any women claiming to be a Freemason. I think Grand Lodges have made enough changes (good or bad) for various reasons and sometimes just for the sake of change. Our obligation is against it and that is what I swore to. My word is stronger than politaical correctness.

Just my opinion.
Bro. Joseph G Martoccio PM.


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There is a co-mason lodge in Austin, TX

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Cblack said:

There is a co-mason lodge in Austin, TX

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There are 8 of our lodges in Travis county and I haven't looked up PHA lodges to add to the total. Where's the next nearest Comason lodge? Le Driot Domain doesn't list any lodges in Texas but they have 16 in all of the US. Co-Masonry.org does not offer a list of lodges but they aren't going to be any larger. So both CoMason jurisdictions together in all of the US are 4 times the size of the districts near Austin. The difference in population is that big. If we ignored them it would be like NATO ignoring Liechtenstein.

That said if you want to attend one of their non-tiled social events there's no problem. Don't pass their tiler; don't have an issue. if you can find their meetings at all.

Doesn't attending one of those lodges violate the oath we took? Certainly the one I swore to.

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JGMarto PM said:

Doesn't attending one of those lodges violate the oath we took? Certainly the one I swore to.

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Was just thinking the same thing - Don't see how it could be classified as anything but clandestine.

JGMarto PM said:

Doesn't attending one of those lodges violate the oath we took? Certainly the one I swore to.

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Social events are not tiled lodge and thus do not fall under the oath.

Has a woman ever attended an open installation or lodge sponsored ladies night dinner at your lodge? The way you appear to have phrased it you swore an oath to not let that happen either. You understand that it works exactly the same in reverse, right? If you think it's not allowed to attend a non-tiled social event by some random organization not considered Masons just because there are women there you're going to have troubles going to social events sponsored by work.

Closer to home, this same principle applies to PHA non-tiled social events. They aren't tiled and therefore the rule against visitation does not apply to any Texas Mason of either of the two regular jurisdictions. In Masonry "visiting" a lodge means going past the tiler and giving the modes of recognition. Attending social events is not visiting. Keep an eye out for any such social event.

I wouldn't consider a social event against my oath. But in Pa co-masonry is considered clandestine and I personally would not attend an event sponsered by them. Prince Hall lodges are recognised in Pa and not against our oath to visit.

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This is something I've seen a couple of lodges doing around in my area, involving the wives a lot in the meal and whatnot. I like that a lot and would like to see it happen at my lodge, we'll see. I think what it likely takes is 3-4 of the ladies of the fellas at the lodge hanging out and growing genuinely fond of one another, or else being drug up to lodge is a chore proposition.

Like take my Shrine unit. Everything practically is co-ed. When we have our stated meeting, the ladies have a little business powwow too, and do fundraisers all on their own and whatnot. Its awesome. My wife keeps me informed on all the upcoming events and looks forward to going up to the Shrine. And a whole room full of ladies are like my adopted Aunts who are glad to see me. Its just really familial feeling and comfortable.

So I'd love to bring that kind of environment to our lodge. But when I've floated the idea in some circles I get a bit of pushback, so dunno - like I say we'll see.

I will say that over the last couple of years my views have become more conservative. To me, co-masonry or some kind of new thing in the US is just not needed. The OES is cool, all set up with a history and all of it, and do good things. Whats wrong with it? Is it the relation to a MM that is at issue?

The idea of calling a lady "Brother" just seems silly to me. To me its like the goofy Star Trek where they call female officers "Sir" rather than "Ma'am", as if Madam was an inferior word. To me its like they go so far to reject inferiority that they create it by lessening the importance of the word "Sister", you know?

But anyhow, thats just me - and like I say over the last couple of years I've become more conservative on the issue. Mostly because I've learned a wee bit about OES and seen the awesome ladies at the Shrine. They run the place, or at the very very least are most certainly not thought of as "lesser". Every man up there treats my wife like the Lady she is in fact and name, and I do the same to the other Ladies. And by that I mean with the very deepest respect. Where is the problem?

Plus there is the Daughters of the Nile and so on and so forth.

Yes OES is a fantastic organization. I worked hand I'm hand with them the 2 years I was WM. Great group of ladies and gentleman.

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So I voted "no". The problems that exist in the "fraternity" also exist in all the other masonic affiliated organizations. Personally if I want to become a mason and learn masonry, I want to go to England to do it and visit one of the lodges the UGLE approves of that are all women. Clandestine or not for me learning the work is more for reference to the other rituals and degrees I have learned. Sad part is that even after I gain my PhD and do my dissertation on Eastern Star and Masonic History. I feel that the only way to share enlightenment on the craft or any of the degrees of any order and being taken creditable is to use a pseudonym. Sad as that is to say. I feel we can all share in the knowledge of the craft, women bring enlightenment into the order by being able to view it as an outsider. Not that much is hidden any longer. The thing that remains true like all good secrets I get the answer "I can not confirm or deny that is what that means" when I ask about what I have discovered on my own about the order.

Read your mm ob



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UGLE doesn't have too much of a problem with all female masonry.

If a lady ask to join kindly point her to female masonic organizations. If she has not the privilege of having a mason as a father, etc.

Why not? It's not our business. Right?

My aunt (RIP) was an OES and she knew a lot about the male craft side (grips, signs, etc...all of it). Not from computers, Duncan, etc. <----before all of that. A brother told me he had similar happen to him with a OES relative....where she referred to a certain penalty to him.

So...

IMO People take the OB's...TOO serious....if that's the case don't wear rings, use auto emblems, get tattoos...all of those are engraved...carved....moveable or immovable.....whatever. I hear way back when we couldn't wear rings. Now we do so 24/7.






/G\
FHC
357
FLT


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I hear you bro I just simply take mine seriously my wide is Oes and we seriously try and respect the craft. I would gladly point a woman in the right direction. But one thing if you don't take you on seriously than where is the respect for the craft?


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WB Hayes said:

I hear you bro I just simply take mine seriously my wide is Oes and we seriously try and respect the craft. I would gladly point a woman in the right direction. But one thing if you don't take you on seriously than where is the respect for the craft?


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Of course take it serious. I said don't take it TOO serious.


/G\
FHC
357
FLT


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I feel that women should not be masons. There are other organizations out there for the woman to be a part of


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MajaOES said:

Personally if I want to become a mason and learn masonry, I want to go to England to do it and visit one of the lodges the UGLE approves of that are all women. Clandestine or not for me learning the work is more for reference to the other rituals and degrees I have learned.

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You don't have to go to England to find one of the tiny lodges that admit both men and women or women only. There are several in the US. As our lodges do they have events that are open to non-members. Anyone can go to such an event without violating any obligation. Passing one of their tilers is an entirely different matter. Join such a lodge, pass one of their tilers and you can't attend one of our lodges and vice versa. The difference in population is enormous and that says much about the effectiveness of female and coed lodges in general but they are sure to have top notch individual members.

I too voted no. Like I said I'm a member of the OES. I have the highest respect for the ladies, but they do have their own lodges.