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Poll: Should Clandestine Masons be banned from the site?

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  1. #1
    So Mote It Be
    Blake Bowden's Avatar

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    Default Clandestine Freemasons

    Clandestine Freemasons

  2. #2
    "Just in case"
    JTM's Avatar

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    Default

    My opinion, as I've put in other threads is that not having them could be an opportunity to help someone out if they want. Peacible citizens in general have always been welcome here.

    Also, as a reminder, no communication here should be considered "Masonic" or "squared."
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    I agree with JTM. It is a good place to help them out. Heck, many may not even know that they are clandestine and if we can set them on a proper path then all the better. We just have to be careful of the ones like the clandestine guy.

  4. #4
    "Just in case"
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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Also, they may be fine with being clandestine and have a lot of good stuff to say in regards to masonry. :)
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    If they hold themselves out to be Master Masons, I'd like them to post their Lodges and locations so that we'll know their obedience, but otherwise I have no objection.

  6. #6
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    Default Clandestine Freemasons

    No objections here!
    WM Stewart M. Owings, 3°
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    I don't think clandestine Masons should be banned. I feel that anyone should be allowed to participate in the boards, regular, clandestine, or non-mason, so long as they hold to the community's standards and don't violate the TOS.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    It doesn't seem to cause problems, but if the idea is a discussion of Masonry then a Masons only forum can be nice.

    Of course at TSS we only allow regular Masons and the time I spend vetting each member is a huge pain in the butt.
    Past Master of Enlightenment Lodge 198
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    ...besides, insight can be gleaned a piece at a time from many places and from many different (sometimes clandestine) people. (A certain heroine of the Bible comes to mind)
    dhouseholder
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    I voted no, but realize that I have seen conversations quickly dissolve when regularity is brought up, and realize it can be used as a slight during a disagreement. I am member of international Masonic groups that I will go months ignoring when issues around French regularity is brought up.

    Do I have a problem? No, just means potentially more work for the moderators, suckers. ;)

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Fine as long as they don't propogandize/recruit, which seems to be a penchant for clandestine folks.

    I do think private type forums for VIP types being vetted might be good. A pain, but a much smaller pool of folks.

    Something to consider also is there might come a time when MoT might, might be in a position to weigh in on something important as an organization at a GL meeting or the like. I don't know. I understand Bro Bowden doesn't seem intent upon making the forum official or politicizing, etc, but the reason I mention it is that by making a policy of rejecting clandestine masons presence here it leaves the door open for things like that. If the greybeards get wind that clandestines are allowed here, they will paint MoT itself as clandestine to undermine anything MoT as a group might have to say.

    Its a genie that can't be put back into the lamp is why I mention it. The truth is that while I agree with the sentiment of the brothers who have posted already on the issue, I think were I running the place I'd maintain a zero tolerance policy, keep our collective powder dry so that one day down the road if the stars aligned we might together make a bigger difference than this compromise allows.




  12. #12

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    If the Gerontoi Nikolaoi (Old Nicks) have it in their head, they will say whatever they want to undermine what MoT as a group might have to say. That's just what people in power do. If they wanted, they could undermine MoT on the grounds that it isn't "Tyled"--that it allows profanes to even read it. They could complain that it allows non-Texans to read it without going through proper Grand Secretary channels for a "virtual visitation" between Grand Lodges. I'm sure we could make up more excuses.

  13. #13

  14. #14

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Having gone through a clandestine lodge, being apart of this forum has helped me find out that I was clandestine lodge and how to go about fixing the problem. Alot of people who are in these lodges don't know they are clandestine, like I did, and some want to make the change then to become regular or "real" in my terms. Now I do agree that a lot of them are proud to be irregular, only due to the fact that they were hazed badly during their process that they don't want to have to repeat it again (so they say) to be "real". Some just flat out think that we are wrong and that we should be wrong with them. Where I was duped at, they seemed to be legit, but the more questions I asked, the more they didn't like me. For example, I asked why don't they confer the York rite degrees and they would say "there isn't a York rite" they only went to master mason then 32nd and shrine and there was only 1 33rd and he has been a "GM" for over 10 years. The "lodge" in question in Dallas
    And was called Jeremiah Grand Lodge 4222 s Lancaster. (there has been a post about this lodge on this forum from another member on the forum who went through what I went through)

    To sum it up. This forum helped me fix my walk in masonry and find my place among PHA. And if I never would have gotten the help from the awesome brothers on this forum, I still would be a piggy bank for them with no knowledge.

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    Last edited by dizlwizl; 05-15-13 at 08:28 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dizlwizl View Post
    Having gone through a clandestine lodge, being apart of this forum has helped me find out that I was clandestine lodge and how to go about fixing the problem. Alot of people who are in these lodges don't know they are clandestine, like I did, and some want to make the change then to become regular or "real" in my terms.
    Best reason ever to welcome folks who are clandestine!

    This board also welcomes men who want to become brothers. We help point them to regular and recognized lodges.
    Fraternal regards,
    Doug Freyburger
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    This forum is open to non masons as well. Why would anyone think it's a good idea to ban masons here who are (some perhaps unknowingly) members of clanestine lodges? Nobody (except a couple uninformed ones, that I've seen) mistakes this forum for Masonic tyled discussion. This is a public internet forum.
    Daniel Queen|Ω:2456273|ⁿ:2456308|4DČ:2456336|

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dizlwizl View Post
    Having gone through a clandestine lodge, being apart of this forum has helped me find out that I was clandestine lodge and how to go about fixing the problem. Alot of people who are in these lodges don't know they are clandestine, like I did, and some want to make the change then to become regular or "real" in my terms. Now I do agree that a lot of them are proud to be irregular, only due to the fact that they were hazed badly during their process that they don't want to have to repeat it again (so they say) to be "real". Some just flat out think that we are wrong and that we should be wrong with them. Where I was duped at, they seemed to be legit, but the more questions I asked, the more they didn't like me. For example, I asked why don't they confer the York rite degrees and they would say "there isn't a York rite" they only went to master mason then 32nd and shrine and there was only 1 33rd and he has been a "GM" for over 10 years. The "lodge" in question in Dallas
    And was called Jeremiah Grand Lodge 4222 s Lancaster. (there has been a post about this lodge on this forum from another member on the forum who went through what I went through)

    To sum it up. This forum helped me fix my walk in masonry and find my place among PHA. And if I never would have gotten the help from the awesome brothers on this forum, I still would be a piggy bank for them with no knowledge.

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    I talked to a member of Jeremiah GL on the phone when I visited Arlington earlier this year. I had to end up just saying goodbye to him. It was a pointless conversation.
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  18. #18
    bupton52's Avatar

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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dfreybur View Post
    Best reason ever to welcome folks who are clandestine!

    This board also welcomes men who want to become brothers. We help point them to regular and recognized lodges.
    If you knew the type of information that their members are being told........... They need all of the help they can get to be reprogrammed. At times it is so ridiculous. I've heard that the Boston Tea Party was a cover-up for someone trying to steal the charter that Prince Hall had from England.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Sad to say that's what I was told also. I feel better knowing that someone has ran into them and knows how bad it is. They are far beyond ignorance. They have built a house in the north and love it there and want us to move in with them. By any chance, brother, was the man's name Jermaine Williams? I think I might know who you are talking about directly.

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  20. #20
    bupton52's Avatar

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    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dizlwizl View Post
    Sad to say that's what I was told also. I feel better knowing that someone has ran into them and knows how bad it is. They are far beyond ignorance. They have built a house in the north and love it there and want us to move in with them. By any chance, brother, was the man's name Jermaine Williams? I think I might know who you are talking about directly.

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    I don't remember. It was a guy that had been talking crazy on facebook and wanted me to call him, so I did. After our conversation, he blocked me on facebook so......... No worries. He told me he knew that they were legit because he had seen the seal. I was like, what seal? He said it was the State seal of Texas on the GL charter. I asked him since when did GLs have charters? That seemed to piss him off. He didn't appreciate my calmness and ended up hanging up.
    Bro. Byron C. Upton
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    I was desperate back then to find a home with masonry that I trusted too easily, but when I was being challenged over in Tyler, TX where I live, I had no response. They didn't care if I made it to meetings or not most of the time, but when it came to money, I was first to know that I owed some. And I always wondered where the money went. And why I never got anything from them other than a Duncan my apron and a card. Then after talking with the real brothers I associate myself with, they made it clear and all I asked then was "how do I make this right". When I join ANYTHING I want to do it right. Now I am on my way. I am working on being healed soon, just waiting for my money to get better since my first child will be born soon. But it will happen next month. I have had the roughest time so far and I am excited to actually be able to start to enjoy being a mason. There is much to learn and being apart of this forum has helped me so much. I can't thank everyone enough

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  22. #22

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Yup that's him. I know exactly who you were talking to. They all got mad when I left including him. He tried to tell me that I used him to gain information from them and that I am now clandestine to his lodge. And wondered when I would be coming to Dallas again and what lodge I am apart of now. It's too much for trying to do the right thing.

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  23. #23

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by bupton52 View Post
    I asked him since when did GLs have charters?
    Bro. Byron,

    The GLoT, like any other legitimate corporate entity, is duly chartered by the state of Texas. It was originally chartered by the Republic of Texas in 1845, then by the state of Texas in 1846, again in 1879, and again in 1900- the charter by which we currently operate. The text of all four charters is published in the front of our law book.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    Quote Originally Posted by dizlwizl View Post
    Now I do agree that a lot of them are proud to be irregular, only due to the fact that they were hazed badly during their process that they don't want to have to repeat it again (so they say) to be "real".
    I have heard tales of hazing being conducted by some clandestine Lodges. Does hazing occur in PHA Lodges?

  25. #25

    Default Re: Clandestine Freemasons

    From what I understand it doesn't. I have a few of my good friends who were raised a few months ago PHA and they said there wasn't any hazing.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Freemasonry mobile app

 

 
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