911 Words About 'Obama's Mosque

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by jonesvilletexas, Aug 17, 2010.

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  1. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    This past week, Mr. President, even though no one was asking you to, you stepped into the most painful issue related to the hallowed grounds of 9/11 to date. You chose sides, even when nobody cared if you did. So how do you fell?
     
  2. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    [video=youtube;EZOIBEEvbO0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZOIBEEvbO0[/video]

    Sounds reasonable to me.
     
  3. Benton

    Benton Premium Member

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    I don't think anyone is questioning the right of the Muslim group to built the mosque in Manhattan in the location they desire. I think the right to build there is universally acknowledged.

    I think what people are questioning is the tact and prudence of building in that particular spot. Just because you can do a thing doesn't mean you should. I don't know the motivations of the project leader, so I really want to assume his intentions are pure. However, I can see how those who lost loved ones would find this whole situation distressing. It seems like they chose this location with intent. If they really wish to engender tolerance, this is not the best way to do it. Starting by offending the sensitivities of a particular set of people isn't wise.

    Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how the whole thing pans out. I hope there is a peaceful, mutual agreement that all parties reach so no one ends up being slighted. Given the polarized state of American politics, however, I don't know that will happen at this point in time.
     
  4. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    I could not agree more with what he is saying. I am fed up that we want to embrace religious freedom as long as it pertains to our religion. If they wanted to build a Catholic Church there not one person would be raising an eyebrow. Why is this any different? Just because a person is Muslim doesn't mean they have to strap a bomb on their chest and take someone out. What about Timothy McVey? What about the guy yesterday in McKinney? What about Gacey? We could go on and on about people of various faiths that have done bad things. Hatred knows no religion and to single out a group, that keep in mind is larger than Christians by almost two fold, is horrible.

    This country was founded on the freedom of religion just as the freedom of speech and the right to assemble. You can't have one without the other freedoms. We complain of how we don't want our Government to take our freedoms away and finally when a President has the intestinal fortitude to finally stand up for the people we criticize him. I don't get it.

    What about what he said did you not agree with? Do you think there were no Muslims killed in 9/11?
     
  5. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    What would you expect with a Muslim as a President. He did not have friends or family at ground zero, OH he was on the other side.
     
  6. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    ignorance JVT, let's try to avoid it.

    Things that are true:

    Obama is not a muslim.

    He was not "on the other side"

    There is a mosque 4 blocks from the 9/11 site and nobody has said anything about that one. The 9/11 area is actually quite "muslim" in that there are several arabic/persian/paki restaurants and other places to go. Building a mosque here actually makes sense. There is demand for one there.

    No matter where the Muslims try to build mosques, there are those that hate freedom of religion there trying to protest it. I'm really surprised it made it to these forums.



    Now, I ask you a couple questions:

    What would you have anyone do? They are paying 100 million to turn this rundown building into a good looking building. If you don't love freedom of religion, then you can at least appreciate the capitalism of it all. Why is no one berating the people that sold them the building?

    Presidents often weigh in on social issues. They have been for 2 centuries. They are often wrong and most of the time nobody cares one way or the other. It doesn't matter what he says anyway, the constitution protects their right to build it. Why would you threaten that? When they become the majority, as they are on track to do, would you appreciate them taking away your right to build a church?

    There are plenty of reasons to criticize, challenge, and hate the guy, but this is a poor subject to talk about and one that hardly deserves even an email forward.




    My note as a moderator: If we can't keep this within the purview of reason and light, I'll lock this thread. Any more "Obama is on the side of the terrorists" and it's done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  7. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    I like what the Daily Show said: "You can build a Catholic Church next to a playground, but should you?" Like Josh said, we can't expect every religion to be held accountable for those who have done terrible things.
     
  8. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Wow. You meant to tell me that that attacks on 9/11 were the Muslims vs. Christians? That plane and fire did not draw the line on who died. Muslims died in those attacks just as Christians and people of many faiths. EVERY credible report has OUR President as not being Muslim. His father is and that is where he got his name however his Grandmother is Christian which is who raised him.

    The attacks on 9/11 were by a group of terrorists and did not refect the feelings of the Muslim faith just as the attacks in Oklahoma City did not speak for Christians since Timothy McVey was Christian. These people are radicals just as ALL faiths have radicals and I am personally horrified that you would have such a radical view. You refuse to look at the facts of what you are saying. You have taken a personal agenda and decided to attach that with a point that the President is trying to make.

    The one things these radicals play into are the ignorance of the American people like this. Would we not be better to say "You know what, this is a great idea. You build your Mosque and we will build our churches all right here. Lets show the world that religions can survive in unity just as it does in Lodges. We can all work on the greater good of man. We can't continue to fight us vs them. This is happening all over the world and we will not have it here. We may all be of different faiths, creed, races, and backgrounds but we can come together and work together to make the MORE PERFECT union in the world. The United States of America."

    As I typed that I am reminded of the tenet of Brotherly Love. I challange anyone to flip the tables and ask yourself how would I feel if it were a Church being built and people came to protest the building of the Church and the president came to bat for you. You would feel happy that someone in Washington is attempting to protect your freedom. I am asking you to follow the Golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.


    I don't care what religion you are. That still applies.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
  9. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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    lol!
     
  10. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    as a catholic, i find this joke hilarious.
     
  11. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    The news did not show that the only church destroyed was a Greek Christian Church across the street from ground zero and NY will not let them rebuild it. So what’s up?
     
  12. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    they are building a skyscraper across the street. likely a permit issue until the skyscraper is done.
     
  13. jonesvilletexas

    jonesvilletexas Premium Member

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    Yes that’s it!
     
  14. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    Actually with a little Google search it looks as if the Port Authority was going to do a bunch for the church that was destroyed but they are not wanting to comply. So looks like no one is stopping the building of the church but the chruch. Again not on the news because that is not what gets ratings.

     
  15. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    Why does anyone that does not live in NYC have a heated opinion on this? All of the bluster I've heard about it has been from conservative politicians from everywhere but NYC.

    Is this a real issue?
     
  16. owls84

    owls84 Moderator Premium Member

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    That is kind of what I was wondering Sirus. So I was looking around the net and found plenty of stories covering both sides.

    The Mayor of NYC Bloomberg:
    And that seems to be the concesus of what I am seeing. The people in New York all say both can be built and it not be a problem. The media and poloticians are the ones looking for a story or campaign edge. I would venture to say this is a NON-STORY. Both Churches will be built eveuntually and that is a wonderful thing. To me that defines what we are in America just as I stated earlier. After reading the various stories on this I do feel better because the opinions that are being thrown do not show to be supporting the actions. It seems most that live there are ok with the Mosque and they also know the Chruch will soon be built as well. It seems the Port Authority is about to re-open up talks again with St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church soon. They have enen stated they can have the larger land 2 blocks away as stated or their small piece they previously had. I feel a resolution will soon happen in the the St. Nicholas case and both will exist in Manhattan near Ground Zero.
     
  17. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    I believe the correct term is "neoconservative" or "pseudoconservative"
     
  18. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    You are 100% correct, I stand corrected.

    I have not been able to figure out how any real 'conservative' would want to tell another place how to do their business. When Newt Gingrich said the Mosque should only be allowed when a synagogue or church was built in Mecca, I fell out of my chair. The suggestion that we lower our standards to that of Saudi Arabia is odd for someone who proclaims to love the Constitution and value local rights. Very odd indeed.
     
  19. peace out

    peace out Premium Member

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    When I first heard about this, I thought "what a fantastic country where a religion can find peace in a country despite the radicals actions. How great is it that we not only individualize freedom but individualize wrongful actions." Although I agree with many that the idea or location is tactless, that it can be done makes my heart swell.
     
  20. Benton

    Benton Premium Member

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    I think I'd be careful throwing around labels. While my opinion isn't heated, and I do support the right of individuals to build their Mosque/Community Center at the propose site, I understand while 9/11 family members might be upset over the issue. I don't really care one way or another whether or not it gets built, but I can certainly be sympathetic. If my father/wife etc had died in the attacks, I don't know, my opinion my be stronger.

    I just think it's fair to try and consider all angles, no matter how foreign they might be to us, ourselves.

    Btw, I consider myself a strong libertarian, and am always for more rights and freedoms.

    EDIT: Yes, there are fringe elements who would block the building of the Mosque entirely. But I think its important to remember they are just that, fringe, and often times only get coverage because they shout the loudest so to speak. They don't speak for the majority of Americans, who are moderate, fair, good people.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2010
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