anti masonry

[T.N. Sampson]

Your argument against the Catholic Church is their requirement of Baptism to enter Heaven?

No, I was using their salvific view of baptism to make a point. Essentially, any group can make a claim, and the freedom they have to make such claims also justifies another in stating an opposing view.

You claim to be a Christian but take an opposing view to this? I could understand if you claimed to be Jewish or Muslim but you claim to be Christian and isn't that one of the tenants of the Christian faith?

Roman Catholic doctrine views baptism as an act of salvation, and the person undergoing the sacrament is forgiven of his sins and regenerated by the Holy Spirit. In fact, a person cannot be saved if he has not been baptized, according to the Church. This is one reason that Catholic couples try to get their infants baptised as soon as practical.

Protestants and Baptists do not agree with that doctrine. We view baptism as an act of obedience, an outward sign of an inward change. Faith, and faith alone, are what saves a person.

Again, my point is this: in the marketplace of ideas, the Church is free to promote this doctrine and I am free to rebut it. Both sides would agree to that, and neither side would consider coming to blows over it, at least not in this country, as we both agree that it's God's job to condemn, not ours. Hope this clarifies things. Cordially, Skip.

 

[T.N. Sampson]

widows son:
Given the wide ranging nature of your post #150, I'm going to respond to it in different threads on the Philosophy, religion and spirituality sub-forum. The material doesn't really fit into this thread. If the moderators do not agree, I'm sure they will take whatever action is necessary. There are, however, a few things that can be addressed directly:

Masonic behavior standards are determined by the laws of the land that the mason is residing and by his faith so if he is a Christian and American then the laws of God and the constitution are binding to him.

That pretty much confirms what I noted earlier, that a Mason's morality is pretty much determined by himself. But in noting that behavior standards are not absolute, you've given permission for the Muslim Mason to involve himself in a jihad involving the death of others as it is approved by his faith. I think God's command Do not murder is an absolute one, precluding religious-motivated murders.

Again your basing your opinions off other people opinions, and are therefore not your opinions

I disagree. I base my conclusions on documents which are authoritative within Masonic GL's. Cordially, Skip.

 

[CajunTinMan]

Oh I see Skip. Your a strict legalists. Your trying to use cannon law to condemn Catholics. I knew of another group that did things like this, maybe you've heard of them, there were the Pharisees. You are trying to do the same thing here by trying to twist the words of good men. As far as the Catholic Church saying that Peter was their first Pope. So what. Christ said his Church was to be built upon him. So if they want to claim that he was the first leader of their Church then wouldn't that be correct. Personally Skip, I attend a non-denominational biker church. That probably bothers you too. A place, where ex thieves and former prostitutes are just thankful to be saved and to have their live changed. You know, the kind of place where Christ would have hung out.

 

[T.N. Sampson]

Your trying to use cannon law to condemn Catholics.

Not so. I'm using the Catholic Catechism to answer your question.

As far as the Catholic Church saying that Peter was their first Pope. So what. Christ said his Church was to be built upon him. So if they want to claim that he was the first leader of their Church then wouldn't that be correct.

Not necessarily, but they can claim it none the less.

I attend a non-denominational biker church.

What's its name? I'd be interested in reading their statement of faith. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Traveling Man]

What's its name? I'd be interested in reading their statement of faith. Cordially, Skip.

Because he would like to condemn them too!!!

Is there any other faith here that this bigot hasn't manage to offend?

 

[widows son]

It appears that I can't find your thread in the the said sub forum. It was there

 

[widows son]

Well skip is banned. Almost a month running his
Mouth,

 

[phulseapple]

It is usually a sad thing when someone is banned, however in this case it is for the best. He has an agenda and a mindset that will not be changed. I may not agree with his literal views, but I do wish him well just the same.

 

[widows son]

I would like to apologize if at anytime my comments to skip relating to religion or politics offended any brothers on this forum. No offense intended, the facts I presented were to show him that he was in the wrong and that his twisted view of reality can be justified with his version of "facts.". Again I would never go out of my way to offend any of you.

 

[timgould]

Likewise I want to ask forgiveness to all the brothers out there for Skip. His zealousness does NOT represent the True Christian Faith.

 

[Virgin Islands Brother]

Skip was an interesting character, to say the least. However, one thing his presence did crystallize for me--we should not talk religion. If we are not to do so in lodge, I cannot see how it would benefit us here.

 

[widows son]

I don't think a healthy debate isn't uncalled for, or presenting some information that may be useful, he was a narrow minded guy who was intolerant that doesn't understand what a debate is.

 

[CajunTinMan]

A respectful debate leeds to understanding. I don't have to agree with the person but it does help to know where they are coming from.

 

[widows son]

I agree. There should be nothing wrong with a healthy debate, or presenting information respectfully. But I think in the situation here a guy like skip needs to be contested with, because people like him have been giving a our order and ourselves a bad name for far too long, as I for one won't stand for it, and will defend all of us. His narrow mind and ignorance wasn't allowing him to interpret Masonic information, and thus warping it into some twisted version of history where by he and his religion were to be a new age crusading army, bent on destroying freemasonry and other groups who don't bow down to Pat Robertson. I will admit his comments about Islam and Muslims really got I me only because I have very close friends who are of the Islamic faith and have their family ties to the middle east. We love to debate. I love questioning them on their views and they to me. But at the end of the day we are still friends and have more respect for each other because we do it in a non confrontation, and respectful way. They don't hate Christians, Jews or masons. They don't believe in a jihad, and although they have no desire to be masons, they do not have an urge to destroy it. Their parents and grandparent grew up during the Islamic revolutions and are strict observers of the Islamic faith, and they too say try do not hate western civilization. According to them it's usually people who hold government positions or high positions in their society and don't represent the civilian populations sentiments. Again I apologize if I offended any brothers on this forum during the heated debate with skip. But he needs to be aware that masonry isn't going to sit back anymore.

 

[Frater Cliff Porter]

I think there is a difference between lovingly and Masonically learning about religion and discussing it...and proselytizing and degrading somebody else.

 

[Frater Cliff Porter]

I would never stop doing something because some idiot like Skip can't handle himself appropriately. That is why I am a Mason and not a member of Skip's church.

 

[widows son]

Agreed.

 

[CajunTinMan]

I think you mean the church of Skip

 

[widows son]

It's scary that there's 100's of thousands of people like skip

 

[CajunTinMan]

It's ok Brother. It has always been this way. In the end it just adds to our mystique. People fear what they do not understand.