Christ or the Lodge? A Report on Freemasonry

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by Blake Bowden, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Blake Bowden

    Blake Bowden Administrator Staff Member

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  2. sands67

    sands67 Premium Member

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    The page is gone the link was pointing to
     
  3. Daniel Mosmeyer

    Daniel Mosmeyer Premium Member

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    I just got to it......
     
  4. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    Given that the loudest voices within Freemasonry sometimes seem to be those who appear to promulgate Freemasonry as some sort of a "Hermetic" or Gnostic religion or stand-in for religion, I am not surprised at their conclusion.
     
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  5. Brent Heilman

    Brent Heilman Premium Member

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    As with many other religious institutions something they do not understand becomes something that is against what they stand for. Not knowing all that Masonry encompasses and trying to ascertain the nature of the Fraternity from a few passages from the innumerable works that have been written is disingenuous at best. I would be similar to me trying to write about their religion by taking only a few selections written over their religion and deeming them anti-Christian because they don't agree with my view of Christianity.
     
  6. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    The works they cited weren't chosen at random but were from writers suck as Ward, Mackey, and Haywood. Who provides as well-known and readily-available counter-interpretations? I don't mean defenses against accusations, but interpretations of Freemasonic symbology that actually are easily in accord with more orthodox Christian beliefs. Even on this board there are masons who put a very Hermetic/Gnostic spin upon everything, as if that was the "true" meaning of Freemasonry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  7. otherstar

    otherstar Registered User

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    That's a real problem with these kinds of reports. You can find all kinds of interpretations of Masonic symbolism in published works and cite them as "authoritative" and wind up with skewed results. The only true "authoritative" sources for Masonic teachings are the Monitor for the Grand Lodge, and the rituals performed within the tyled confines of a Lodge. Any other source is just one brothers opinion/thoughts/reflection about what those symbols and rituals mean.
     
  8. crono782

    crono782 Premium Member

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    Indeed. Kinda like reading a book where someone talks *about* Christianity and the Bible and taking that as biblical doctrine rather than taking it from the Bible itself.
     
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  9. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    I sure hope these zealots leave stake-burning, witch-hunting, and just plain out and out slaughter in the name of God off their doctrine list.

    And, though I don't ascribe to all their ideas, I have no rub personally with the brothers who taunt Hermetic and Gnostic views. One an ancient pagan religion and the other the losing slant on Christianity before the Romans shaped the faith into their military hierarchical format. Remember, those who espouse Christian beliefs have no more claim to masonry than do the other two Sons of Abraham. Or Hinduism nor Budism, for that matter.

    Might be a good time to also remember Jesus didn't fair well with the established faith either. Seems to me he favored tax collectors and smelly fishermen over their likes. Ask yourself, just how would Jesus fair with the current Christian hierarchy? Now that, my brother, is a topic worth your efforts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
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  10. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    IMO I'd like to think the roots of the modern freemasonry we enjoy today and back to 1717 were made to enhance the Christian mans experience. when It comes to the hermeticism aspect I think that is there for mason to enjoy who encompasses all faiths. The symbols are rooted back in time with multiple layers of meaning. I don't think it should be dismissed right away, after all the great Masonic authors believed that masonry accents a mans life even if he's not a Christian. But i also realize that they're not a designated authority, jut a lot of brothers agree with them. I truly believe masonry to be much more than that. I believe the words of Hall, Mackey, McCoy, Pike, And the like. These guys dedicated a lot of time and effort into the craft, and I don't think it would be fair to us and those great men who came to the conclusions about the craft. An open mind can cause great things to happen.
     
  11. Trufflehound

    Trufflehound Registered User

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    A Pilgrim's Path by John Robinson pretty much refutes every conclusion that they have jumped to; it's just not well known.

    Anything left over that Brother Robinson doesn't address could have been taken care of if the authors of that paper hadn't cherry-picked all their information. For every Masonic author they cited, there are just as many that have a differing point of view.

    Masonry is different to each person -- it means something different to each Brother. And when it is widely known and accepted that no one person or body can speak for the whole of Masonry, how could one ever pin it down or label it?
     
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  12. RedTemplar

    RedTemplar Johnny Joe Combs Premium Member

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    Freemasonry teaches me that it cannot conflict with the duties I owe to my God. So. "Come and let us and reason together". I will hopefully choose to keep those things which are good.
     
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  13. scialytic

    scialytic Premium Member

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    I must say...in 1942, I would have been focusing on real issues in the world...like in... ...I don't know... ... ...New Zealand, or something. Wasn't there something big going on there in 1942?
     
  14. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    And how many of those other works are as well known? Why aren't they as well known? Where is the great, landscape-striding Masonic author of the status and held in the reverence that Masons hold Mackey? Who has dared write the book by a Mason to Masons to say "These titans of the 19th century were full of it."?

    Widely known and accepted to whom?
     
  15. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    And these Monitors are as heavily published and publicized as Mackey? The authors they chose are deemed to be important and influential by Masons. Where is the Masonic book "Mackey was full of it.", written by a senior Master Mason?
     
  16. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    You do realize that your extremely one-sided view of the history of Christianity is subject to the exact same criticisms you mount against the OEC's report, don't you?

    Your point being? Where are the books that, in loving detail, outline these parallelisms, then? Why do they not routinely appear in elegant editions from Macoy Publishing? Freemasons have allowed a vocal minority to dominate the narrative.

    Tell me who "the current Christian hierarchy", as a SINGLE, UNITARY ADMINISTRATIVE BODY, is, and I could answer that. Pulling out the old "Christ would have been killed by modern Christians." argument is a great way to just duck and hide.
     
  17. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    What is a lamp?
    A symbol of light.

    We can pretty much all agree on that.

    What is the "actual" light symbolized?
    This is where the disagreements can lie, and I prefer to think that Freemasonry leaves that up to each one of us. But the problem arises when someone takes that freedom and uses it as license to impose his own personal tastes as a "Masonic Mystery" or "Esoteric Masonic Lesson", etc, instead of saying "That's something for outside the Fraternity, here we remind each other to look to the light." Thus, instead of speaking man-to-man on the issue, some Masons write enormous volumes that purport to "instruct" on "Masonic meanings" but actually only instruct on the author's personal beliefs.


    What I "dismiss" is the disparity in the Masonic literature. The Hermeticists and Gnostics have very loud voices that are sold in deluxe editions by obviously Masonic-related businesses (like Macoy's really great web site). The rest of us, the boring old Trinitarian Christians, Conservative and Orthodox Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc., not so much. However, the responsibility is upon the shoulders of us members of the drab, pedestrian faiths to do the Work, gain the Degrees, get the respect, and write the books.
     
  18. BryanMaloney

    BryanMaloney Premium Member

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    No, there was some obnoxious guy from Australia making a lot of trouble. What was his name? Adolph Lundgren? Yeah, that's it, he was an Australian who moved to Germany and caused a lot of trouble, then he became an actor.
     
  19. jwhoff

    jwhoff Premium Member

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    Pretty sure you are right brother Bryan. We DO NOT share religious views.

    My point exactly. I again state that Christians, of which I am one (despite agreeing little with you), have no particular hold on free masonry.

    I leave your quarrel with these other brethren.

    Again, trying to change a man's personal beliefs is the better part of worthless. Pearls and Swine, if you will?
     
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  20. Brent Heilman

    Brent Heilman Premium Member

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    What it all boils down to is that in Masonry the symbols used are up to the individual to interpret on their own. You interpretation of one may not be how I interpret it. That is the beauty of our Art. Neither is wrong nor is my view more "right" than yours. The books that are written that you refer to are the author's views and none other than that. You are free to reject their views if you want, but just because you see it different doesn't mean they are wrong either. What I gather from what you are saying in that they take their belief "and uses it as a license to impose his own personal tastes" doesn't sit well with you, yet right before that you say that the choice of interpretation is up to us. All these authors have done is put their thoughts down on paper in the form of a book. Not a single author claims that he is the Masonic authority and what he writes is the truth and there can be no others.
     

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