Conducting Business on the EA Degree

[Ripcord22A]

One that was brought up recently is that some small lodges that are just hanging on as it is would sometimes not be able to open on the with 7 or more. My main reason is simply a personal one. I think that you should have to attain MM status to attend meetings. JMHO.

As for the seven or more the lodge would not have to open on the EA simply would be able to open on the EA. Someone on here can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I read somewhere that jurisdictions that allow EA's and Fellowcraft to attend stated meetingshave a higher activity and retention rate with newer brothers. I can respect your opinion but let me ask you this brother the new EA has paid his fee and gone through the initiation should he not receive a part of the lights rights and benefits of his degree? In both the jurisdictions in which I hold membership PAs and Bella crabs are not only allowed but encouraged to attend meetings, they are not allowed to vote but they are allowed to take part in lodge discussions and when discussing something dealing with the lodge itself are allowed to speak but again they are not allowed to vote so really they are just stating an opinion and a feeling on the matter. I know I know when I was initiated and later past I attended the meetings in between my degrees granted it was only one or two meetings in between my degrees as I was a fast learner but I still wanted to be there and get to know the brothers and get to know what I was joining, I was about to become a part of, and I think thatis what has kept me active during my time in the craft especially with all the times I've moved. As long as we guard the Westgate we don't have anything to worry about shady figures joining our lodge just to figure out what we're doing in there and then never take the second and/or 3rd°, and in my opinion I'd rather that happen then then get the 3rd° and they never come back

 

[CLewey44]

It's not just that; he couldn't even be there for the opening of lodge!

I would say in those cases that you'd definitely have to have MMs fill in those positions. However, FCs would be allowed to do them on EA and other FC degree night and obviously EAs would be available on EA degree nights. The only time they would not be allowed would be on MM degree night which isn't that common anyways then the simple solution would just be to have other MMs do the degree work.

 

[Warrior1256]

As for the seven or more the lodge would not have to open on the EA simply would be able to open on the EA.

Not as it is being proposed here. The legislation up for vote in the Grand Lodge this year is that the members of each lodge can vote whether or not the lodge will open on the EA. If the vote passes then the lodge MUST open on the EA unless or until the lodge holds another vote to open only on the MM degree and this passes.

 

[David Duke]

..... If the vote passes then the lodge MUST open on the EA unless or until the lodge holds another vote to open only on the MM degree and this passes.

I definitely don't like this being the only option.

when we first began opening on the EA I was saw the benefit but was against it because I felt you should "earn" the right and still do to some extent. But I must say after seeing the excitement of the EAs and FCs in being allowed (no voting) it has won me over. The reason we do alternate openings MM then EA is that when we started it we went exclusively EA we went a few months without having a MM degree and when we did you could tell we were out of practice. Doing alternate openings keeps everyone fresh and on their toes.


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[Warrior1256]

I definitely don't like this being the only option.

Same here.

when we first began opening on the EA I was saw the benefit but was against it because I felt you should "earn" the right and still do to some extent.

This is the way that I look at it now. If we start opening on the EA and I see positive things would I change my mind? Very possible. I always try to keep an open mind.

 

[Ripcord22A]

And paying the initiation degree fees and being regularly initiated in to a lodge of EAs hasn't earned him to right to sit in a lodge of EAs?


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[Warrior1256]

And paying the initiation degree fees and being regularly initiated in to a lodge of EAs hasn't earned him to right to sit in a lodge of EAs?

That's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that, at this point, I am against opening regular meetings on anything but the MM degree.

 

[Ripcord22A]

That's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that, at this point, I am against opening regular meetings on anything but the MM degree.

But why?

 

[Warrior1256]

But why?

For the reasons that I stated in #21 and #24.

 

[Ripcord22A]

24 you say cause GL proposal is that the lodge MUST open on the EA, ok I get that I don't like GL saying we HAVE to do something like that either.
In 21 you say your personal opinion is that a Bro should have to be MM to attend meetings. I ask why should they be MMs? You also say that smaller lodges would struggle with the 7 or more, to that I say even though a lodge of MMs says 3 or more in reality a lodge iot to open needs @ least 6.....T, JD,SD, JW , SW & WM....so that point is moot(unless ur jurisdiction truly only needs 3) in which case I ask who would attend the alter and who would tyle the lodge?

So if GL said a lodge COULD open on the EA/FC if an EA/FC was present or just for practice why do you feel only MM are worthy of sitting in lodge for reasons other then watching a degree? I mean if MM business needs to be conducted then by all means ask the brother to wait outside till that part is done then bring em back....you never know what might happen...Just a hypothetical....there is a petition read in lodge, one of your EAs or FCs know the man and know him to not be an upright man or they just don't get along and brining him in would cause disharmony, if the "young" brothers aren't there they never know until it's too late, if they are aloud in the meeting then they can at least stand and speak, they don't get a vote but can at least let the lodge know or at a minimum notify a MM if the situation


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[Bloke]

As for the seven or more the lodge would not have to open on the EA simply would be able to open on the EA. Someone on here can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I read somewhere that jurisdictions that allow EA's and Fellowcraft to attend stated meetingshave a higher activity and retention rate with newer brothers...

Often said.. but never actually seen it proved....

... My main reason is simply a personal one. I think that you should have to attain MM status to attend meetings. JMHO.

Do your partners or kids ever attend lodge ? Ours do..... It would seem strange to put a brother on the same footing, by only opening on the third degree.

How long does it take for an EA to become a MM - here it is a year, which is a long time to be sitting outside..

 

[Bloke]

(oh... and we encourage brother to attend any rehearsal for a degree they have - this means we sometimes see EAs and FCs and MMs not in office at rehearsal just watching... they learn a lot, both about the degree, the work that goes on, the mechanics of how it works. It also means, if I am looking for someone to do a job or charge, the MMs there get jobs. Next meeting I have a MM who's attended every rehearsal he could since being an EA (being away and rehearsing higher degrees aside), I've actually put him displacing the installed JD because that JD was not showing up...)

 

[Ripcord22A]

It would seem strange to put a brother on the same footing, by only opening on the third degree.

Not sure what you mean?

 

[David Duke]

And paying the initiation degree fees and being regularly initiated in to a lodge of EAs hasn't earned him to right to sit in a lodge of EAs?


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In sitting in an EA Lodge yes; but a Stated Meeting is different; as I said earlier I am one who always felt you should "earn" the right, paying a degree fee and being initiated IMHO does not earn you anything other than the opportunity to learn.

But as I also said earlier I can truly see the benefits of "granting " the EA and FC the privilege of sitting in on a Stated (business) meeting. I know during my year in the East I purposely held off discussions of what may have been controversial issues when we were opened on the EA until the next meeting because I felt, and still do that some discussions needed to be held among MM only. Your reply will probably be to ask them to leave the Lodge and I say that would only highlight further or draw more attention to the possible controversy.

As far as an EA or for that matter a MM standing up in Lodge and talking about a potential candidate, in Texas this is strictly forbidden. Speaking to the WM or even the members of the Investigation Committee yes of course but campaigning in open Lodge for or against a candidate is a BIG no no.

Once again I will say I truly see the benefit of allowing admission but do not think it should be an absolute right.


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[Ripcord22A]

In sitting in an EA Lodge yes; but a Stated Meeting is different; as I said earlier I am one who always felt you should "earn" the right, paying a degree fee and being initiated IMHO does not earn you anything other than the opportunity to learn.

But as I also said earlier I can truly see the benefits of "granting " the EA and FC the privilege of sitting in on a Stated (business) meeting. I know during my year in the East I purposely held off discussions of what may have been controversial issues when we were opened on the EA until the next meeting because I felt, and still do that some discussions needed to be held among MM only. Your reply will probably be to ask them to leave the Lodge and I say that would only highlight further or draw more attention to the possible controversy.

As far as an EA or for that matter a MM standing up in Lodge and talking about a potential candidate, in Texas this is strictly forbidden. Speaking to the WM or even the members of the Investigation Committee yes of course but campaigning in open Lodge for or against a candidate is a BIG no no.

Once again I will say I truly see the benefit of allowing admission but do not think it should be an absolute right.


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In both my jurisdictions discussion on a petition is part of the process, but once voted no discussion.

A stated meeting in most places is just bills and junk anyways so maybe it is better to keep em out...lol.

I like the idea of not having the "controversial" discussion when they are present, one way to avoid this is to notify the breathren beforehand that it's a MM only meeting.

 

[Bloke]

Not sure what you mean?

Sorry, I was not clear. We have our families to lodge sometimes. The non-freemasons cannot enter the lodge meeting. I was making a comparison between our families and an EA who attends a lodge opening on the third - both cannot enter, but one is actually a Freemason...

 

[Ripcord22A]

Ah I get it now....yes I agree!

Several months ago we had a FC deg in NM an EA came to dinner and then waited outside till the deg was over and then accompanied us all to a local cigar bar for drinks and smokes


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[HoldenMonty]

Seeing all the discussions I really think it depends on the Jurisdiction, and the Lodge itself. For me when I got my first degree knowing now they opened at the MM level and conducted their business and then lowered it to the EA level to give me my first degree and at the next stated meeting was when I got my FC degree and they did things the same way, and then they had the summer break and then at the next stated meeting was when I got my MM degree but the opened on at the MM level and raised me and then I was able to be apart of the business and felt really special and like I was finally truly apart of the Lodge after I became a MM. I was the first person that voted depends and I stand by my depends because it depends on your Jurisdiction like for me and I think most Lodges in Pennsylvania do it the way my Lodge made me a MM so there really aren't any stated meetings from when you get one degree until you get the next degree then there really isn't a need to open in any other degree then a MM.

 

[Warrior1256]

How long does it take for an EA to become a MM - here it is a year, which is a long time to be sitting outside..

An EA can apply for FC 28 days after receiving his EA providing that he can pass his proficiency. The same from FC to MM.

In sitting in an EA Lodge yes; but a Stated Meeting is different; as I said earlier I am one who always felt you should "earn" the right, paying a degree fee and being initiated IMHO does not earn you anything other than the opportunity to learn.

Same here.

 

[Bloke]

An EA can apply for FC 28 days after receiving his EA providing that he can pass his proficiency. The same from FC to MM.

Same here.

it's always going to take an EA not less than 12 months here to get his MM.... and the reality is in a busy lodge.. it can take a lot longer.. we did a batch of thirds this year, because some of those guys were initiated more than 2 years ago... that's a lot of time to be sitting outside, and I know from experience, they will stop comming to every meeting and start to ask how long they can expect to be in the lodge room before deciding if they will show. Not all are like that, but the ones who always show - they always end up being the best members..