Deist or Irreligious Freemasons

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by RhushidaK, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Are there any deists or irreligious, regular Freemasons here? If so, what do you have as VSL while swearing? And how do you see them as in general?

    Note: Irreligious here would denote Freemasons who believe in a god, but do not follow any religion.
     
  2. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I would count myself a Deist but do not object to the Bible as the VSL.
     
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  3. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Interesting. But then what did you swear on? I have read about two different VSLs used, the Jefferson Bible and a blank book.
     
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  4. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Your in India? I would think you'd seen a few VSLs... in my lodge I've seen Bibles, Korans, Gitas and Buddhist texts used as VSLs and visited Lodges with the Talmud...

    Sent from my SM-G920I using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
  5. Scoops

    Scoops Registered User

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    Counting myself as a Panentheist, in theory, I'd have been happy taking my Obs. on any Holy Book that is an interpretation of the Divine Will. In practice, I used a Bible as it's the book I'm most familiar with having been raised as a Christian.
     
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  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    On the Bible
     
  7. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Cool..
    @Scoops I'm a panentheist too. My beliefs lie quite close to that of Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism. And I swore my obs. on the Gita.

    @Bloke Yup. We always have five VSLs on the altar. The Gita, Bible, Quran, Guru Granth Sahib (the Sikh book) and Zend Avesta (the Zoroastrian book).
     
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  8. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    A blank book is specifically prohibited in some jurisdictions, as it cannot contain the revealed word of God.
     
  9. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Interesting.. But what if someone does not believe that there is specifically a revealed text by God? Since the requirement for being a Freemason is having faith in God, and not necessarily belonging to any religion.
     
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  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Two different issues arise. 1. Not believing in a revealed text does not prohibit taking an obligation on such. 2. In some jurisdictions, membership would be prohibited. For instance, Texas requires on its petition for the degrees a belief in the the divine authenticity of the volume of sacred law (and the US Constitution). http://grandlodgeoftexas.org/assets/uploads/2015/10/26.pdf
     
  11. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Owww.. 1 Yes of course
    But for 2, is that allowed? Allowing membership to only those who have revealed scriptures? Or is that upto the Grand lodge?
     
  12. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Yes, yes, and yes, as seen in the link.

    Remember, we have GLs which are Christian, and until 1984, UGLE condoned excluding Latter-day Saints.
     
  13. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Ouch.. That's sad.. My personal opinion of course. Freemasonry should be for all. Not including women, I can understand, since it's a fraternity. Atheists I can understand since Freemasonry is based on the fatherhood of God. But it's sad if a GL limits people according to religion or race or sexual orientation.. Hope they change that one day.
     
  14. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I don't think the word "irreligious" works for men who are not members of any specific religion, but that's a terminology issue.

    A friend asked me about the Masons then mentioned that he didn't believe in churches. I responded that Masonry requires a belief in a supreme being and that's not the same as human organizations. This led to a year of discussions over lunch. Then he asked for a petition and I helped him select a lodge and work through his degrees. He was a man of faith without a specific religion or church.

    Masonry teaches us to be better members of our chosen church and also to be more generous of heart. My friend took those lessons to heart and ended up attending a local church. As he'd started out believing in the existence of a supreme being he didn't need to convert he just started showing up. His objections had been to the history of the human organization.

    Deists have been fairly common in Masonry in the US. It's an idea that becomes more then less popular across the decades. As the idea accepts the existence of a supreme being deists have long been welcome in our lodges.
     
  15. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    INTERESTING.... This just lit up my philosophical lightbulb as a panentheist :D Truly Freemasonry sheds light on us, in unique ways.
     
  16. deministri

    deministri Registered User

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    I feel im both: deist since i belive in the Grand architect and do not follow any dogma. Irreligious because i dont follow any but, i respect and honor all believes.

    Sent from my XT1563 using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
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  17. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    Wow. Thank you for that link Bro Glen.

    "Firm belief" in the Divine Authenticity of the VSL... i did not know that. If we had that here, we'd have A LOT less Freemasons. If that had of been a requirement, I would not have been able to join.. or would have spent a long time Soul Searching... All other questions, including components of that one and even belief in the USA Const are okay but if you put the form in front of me right now, I would not be able to sign it. I'd cross that out and take my chances. Would the same be true for affiliation ? Looks like I can't be a Texan Freemason under that GL..
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
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  18. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    I prefer Jewish translations of the Old Testament.
     
  19. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Are u saying because u r Australian you dont believe in the authority of the US Constitution? what about if unwere visiting the US? Would u follow our laws? To me that is believing in the constitution.....

    Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
  20. RhushidaK

    RhushidaK Registered User

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    Well believing in the constitution would mean one thing. Being governed by them would be another. Much like an Australian would not be governed by the US Constitution in Australia, a Christian would not believe that a Quran is divine revelation, and vice versa. Which is where the difference between Freemasons and common men would come in. We have divine revelations/divine will of our own faiths in God. We need not believe that all books are divine revelation, but we still give respect to all VSLs. That is where Brotherhood would come in. Likewise, irreligious or deists might not have a revealed scripture, but they have respect for and take their obligations on VSLs still, as symbolic of Divinity. (My interpretation; This may be different for other brethren).

    So likewise, I may not believe in any revealed scripture, but I still took my obs on a Gita, as symbolic of the will of God. For me, it would be the same even I took my obs on a Bible, Quran, Torah, Tripitaka, Jefferson Bible, Guru Granth Sahib, Zend Avesta or a blank book (much like normal water blessed to make holy water). Since for me, it signifies the greatness of God over man, and our inferiority portrayed by us not knowing God's will.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2016
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