Deist or Irreligious Freemasons

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by RhushidaK, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    You draw an artificial dichotomy. Studying scriptures does not preclude going deeper than the printed word. Many of us believe in personal revelation.

    Edit: you also operate from the premise that all scriptures are the written word of man. Not all of us, and not all GLs, accept that premise.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
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  2. Elexir

    Elexir Registered User

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    My defenition of spiritual is that you belive in a supreme entety that reveals higher understanding thats beyond human and scientific understanding.

    The words are chosen becuse they were not meant to be taken litteraly, they are only there to be pointers.

    The dictomy between religion and science is a new idea, wich the Jesuits are good evidence for.
    When modern freemasonry started to apear in the 1700s science and religion where highly entertwined with each other.
     
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Recognizable and discernible patterns that transcend time and space, which animate time and space and which make souls possible through clearly recognizable and discernible processes.
    No. I do see it as a possible path.
    Define "Faith".
    You are mistaken. Although some Freemasons may be very literal, Freemasonry points, and with great reoccurrence through inculcation, with metaphor, allegory and a host of figures of speech (you know, non literal stuff) toward many transcendent things that could not possibly be understood if one remained Literal in one's thoughts. In fact, one critical part of Masonic development is training the figurative mind and is pointed toward by suggestion to study and know the Trivium.
     
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  4. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Agreed!
     
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  5. Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd

    Bro MBGellner RAM; 32nd Registered User

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    It is easy to become obsessed with a billion explanations of our symbols. The craftsman should reflect on his teachings and works. The deeper meanings will occur to you more over time and with practiced reflection.

    In the end, we are but a copy made in an image. And our teachings are to practice this image. It is a sacred truth that if you are a copy; then the one true form exists. We are rough longing to be perfect and by the symbolism of the dialogue the allegory teachings are a prophecy to us that the perfect one does exist.

    God is at its center
    And we are God's followers.
    God calls us a priesthood.
    We are the priests.
    We have chosen a side because we choose light. Light is good. And there is no darkness in God.
     
  6. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    For a Deist this is a strange statement. Does the Source of Existence need a priesthood? To do what?
     
  7. 88DAM88

    88DAM88 Registered User

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    A. I respect your view, however, I am a bit taken aback by a man who says that he does not trust inquiry and observation and study and delving in depth into matter and spirit is a valid path of gaining wisdom and insight. Even the bible says that the stones speak truth to those who will listen. Masonry was founded in science as a way to know higher laws and workings. Freemasonry is not a religion, but a fraternity and a wisdom path to me. Why do we even have the Staircase Lecture then, why is Freemasonry's main charity the advancement of education? Is the Trivium not science?

    B) faith
    [fāTH]
    NOUN
    1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something:
    C) Of course the allegories are not literal, but they point to the literal spirit behind the words. When I say that Freemasonry is literal I am speaking of the ritual. These words are the exact correct words, irreplaceable by others as the meaning would change. This was crafted by highly educated scholars and Masons in a VERY deliberate and intentional manner. Such things as our Constitution and Declaration of Independence are also crafted with this same precision. I would say that your assertion that freemasons may be literal but that Freemasonry is not would be as incorrect as my mis-stated sentence about Freemasonry being very literal.

    I also wish to express my gratitude for your continued conversation on this topic. Much to learn, interesting perspectives, not mine, but that is what Brotherhood is all about, is it not? Learning from each other? This, in my opinion is why there are more than one of us. ;)
    Thank you for your opinions, your scholarship, insight, knowledge and experience. I have been improved by the conversation.
     
  8. 88DAM88

    88DAM88 Registered User

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    Interesting, your definition of spiritual is more a definition of religion and in my opinion somewhat touching on a definition of spirituality, but not of spiritual. My definition of spiritual is "non-material." I see matter and I see spirit, and I see that all of these are forms of energy. To me things of spirit are "meaning" "story" "ideas" thoughts" "intention" etc . . .

    Much of Freemasonry, the language of the rituals and constitutions are extremely literal, use of exact wording to denote specific ideas being conveyed . . . one could not take the rituals in their old precise English crafted with extreme intelligence and literacy and render them in a lesser, colloquial manner and still have the same meaning, nor the same esoteric or spiritual conveyance. There is of course, much use of allegory and parable and symbol in Freemasonry, but I see them used to point to, or express, specific philosophies of morality and ethos. Science and religion, just as philosophy and metaphysics diverged, however, they are reuniting in our time as deepening of discoveries and understanding in all these disciplines are bringing them all closer again.

    Thank you for your contribution to this conversation. I am bettered by the interaction and value it greatly even though we may as of yet disagree on some aspects, this is the joy of Fraternity to me. To listen and discover and be thereby expanded in my understanding of Humanity.
     
  9. 88DAM88

    88DAM88 Registered User

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    Ah! I agree, Sir.

    True: Studying scriptures does not preclude going deeper than the printed word.
    True: Many of us believe in personal revelation.
    Personal revelation is the way we know for ourselves the most important truths of our existence. I agree, but would posit that one man's path of revelation or practice of path, does not negate the legitimacy of another man's valid personal path or valid personally valid practice . . . and thereby, that one may receive spiritual knowledge via science, and that one may know the will of God by the functioning of the Laws of Nature which are "His" design, his Grand Architecture. I feel that many Masons seem to forget that God is a word to refer to a concept, that GAOTU stands for Grand Architect Of The Universe, that any Supreme Being would then be The God of (who rules) Nature, or Nature's God, Nature's Architect.

    I would love to see a Sacred Volume of the Law actually written in the handwriting of God.....I believe in the bible it said that God gave Moses one once, but that Moses broke the tablets, and so God then had Moses dictate (write) them down. Inspired writings, I can understand that, but that could be as broad as any Mason's definition or understanding of God / Deity / Supreme Being / GAOTU.

    Grand Lodge's only dictate the politics of the Freemasonic organization / business, they do not define Freemasonry nor God to Mason's. They couldn't, otherwise there would be one Universal definition of it, all GL Constitutions would read the same etc . .. just like there are SO many different churches, there is no one true truth. That is, quite obviously, each man's own personal territory of understanding and development. Freemasonry should be the Fraternity, a supportive scaffolding for each Brother to seek and explore and discover an define this.
     
  10. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    I was quite specific when I used the word "possible". You clearly have mistaken what I made effort to communicate.
     
  11. 88DAM88

    88DAM88 Registered User

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    You are correct again, Brother. Your response was "No. I do see it as a possible path." and I somehow misread that as No. I do not see it as a possible path." Your conveyance is clear to me, now that my error in perception has been corrected. Thank you.
     
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  12. Mark S

    Mark S Registered User

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    This was a very good read. I am not a mason yet, and have been missing out on opportunities in the past. I always thought I tik all the mason boxes, but for the faith part. I life my life according to the good book of Christianity and respect and love other people's choice of faith. My wish to do good and end in a happy place is very important to me. Although I would not give myself the title of Christian as I do not practice it. This issue was always my greatest worry if I had the privilege of an interview.

    Sent from my SM-N910C using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
  13. GGG

    GGG Registered User

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    Although I'm only in the beginning of the road towards entering a regular lodge, I already noticed a sharp state or feeling of active opposition towards the irregular philosophy in my country (and I think vice versa) -> not towards brothers in person, but rather towards the way of thinking). But I like the idea of having VSL/Bible as a philosophical, ethical scripture or a referral to any holy book and not Christian in a dogmatic way in particular. Religious, but not dogmatic. I wouldn't mind to find a bible an a regular lodge.
     
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  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    The best of luck to you!
     
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  15. GGG

    GGG Registered User

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    :) tnx :)
     
  16. Cruce

    Cruce Registered User

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    I have a mixture of beliefs from Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism, Judaism, Gnostic teachings and ancient beliefs.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  17. Cruce

    Cruce Registered User

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    Regarding the U.S constitution, I believe it is technically null and void after the estate fractured into the original 13 colonies. It's a little legal technicality that's worth looking into. Also mentioning the constitution makes you a potential terrorist now by law and detainable indefinitely. Just some useful information.
     
  18. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Doesn't that make you a potential terrorist?
     
  19. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Lol!
     
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  20. Keith C

    Keith C Registered User

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    So you are not a Mason, but know more about Freemasonry than the majority of posters here.

    And you are not a US Citizen, but know more about the US Constitution than the majority of Constitutional scholars and Justices of the US Supreme Court?

    Am I missing something?
     

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