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Democracy vs Republic: Which are We?

Is the US a Democracy or a Republic?

  • Democracy

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Republic

    Votes: 61 71.8%
  • a stepping stone to socialism

    Votes: 21 24.7%

  • Total voters
    85

BroBook

Premium Member
We are both and neither we are unique in the world our ( people who live here) big problem is that we keep forgetting that our beliefs are for us and not to force others to adapt to our beliefs
My instructor had a saying "we are fighting for a democracy " whatever that meant me personally I would vote for TRUTH and let it do what it do!!!


My Freemasonry
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
Reviving a dead horse ... or getting your gerrymandered ax back out to grind it.

It may be time for some of us on the other side of this argument to tell you point blank:

Don't Tread on Me!


Here's a thought, why don't we use this website for masonic topics and keep the ax in your closet for other mediums.
 
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JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
We are both and neither we are unique in the world our ( people who live here) big problem is that we keep forgetting that our beliefs are for us and not to force others to adapt to our beliefs
My instructor had a saying "we are fighting for a democracy " whatever that meant me personally I would vote for TRUTH and let it do what it do!!!


My Freemasonry

We are talking about the rule of law and the form of government that we have, correct?

For me this is a common misconception, or at least, this statement is used as the basis for a logical fallacy. "Not to force others to adapt to our beliefs."

Our founding fathers believed that there was definitely a right way and a wrong way to doing things. Dissenters may not "believe" in the law, but they sure are forced to follow it, same as everybody else...
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
It's a strong rule in Australia that political talk is NEVER to enter the Lodge or be spoken of when brothers meet to discuss non masonry topics.


My Freemasonry
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
Reviving a dead horse ... or getting your gerrymandered ax back out to grind it.

It may be time for some of us on the other side of this argument to tell you point blank:

Don't Tread on Me!

You are saying that we are not a Republic but that we are an unlimited democracy, in which a simple majority can legally ride roughshod over the minority? Because that is the "other side" from my own standpoint.
 

JTM

"Just in case"
Premium Member
It's a strong rule in Australia that political talk is NEVER to enter the Lodge or be spoken of when brothers meet to discuss non masonry topics.


My Freemasonry
:) Ya'll have strong rules and weak rules there?

It's a rule here that we can't talk about religion or politics inside of a lodge.

Here in Texas at least, once lodge is over, we do it until the sun comes up.
 

Bro Darren

Premium Member
:) Ya'll have strong rules and weak rules there?

It's a rule here that we can't talk about religion or politics inside of a lodge.

Here in Texas at least, once lodge is over, we do it until the sun comes up.

Its very strict - History has show us that individual political views are very personal and to some, very precious.. We do not discuss as it can lead to disunity :)
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
You are saying that we are not a Republic but that we are an unlimited democracy, in which a simple majority can legally ride roughshod over the minority? Because that is the "other side" from my own standpoint.


Interesting. I pushed the Republic button.

I just like the Aussie comment above.
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
Thank you brother!

Finally something that makes sense.

The further we look into this thing the more we may find that our form of government is a mixture of many of these purist definitions. I know of no nation ruled by one of the structured definitions listed in The ISM textbook.

Russia under "communism" and today is run by an oligarchy. The United States has deep underlying trends of both capitalism and socialism. Neither of which we should let get out of control. Even Iran is not a pure theocracy. Witness its three-way struggle of Islam, a growing middle class and the oligarchy ruling class.

And, should our personal fears ever waver, we will find good AND bad in each of these pure ISM definitions. Much like making a living off the sale of guns and sacret texts the world over, those who rely on fear and ignorance to spread their unjust hatreds try to push us all into a little box: the better to pick us off one by one to satisfy their personal ambitions. Make no mistake, these people are our true enemies!

The fact is that our natural tendency is to break ourselves up into tribal groups. Not a good ideal in a world inhabited by near eight billion people in the midst of an information age that notifies a Nordic medical assistant of the thoughts of an Egyptian activist swayed by the teachings of an American populist who adheres to the teachings of a late 19th century economists who was reacting to the European empires and American Tea Pot Dome scandal of his day.

Add any argument you wish into the above statement, the result is the same. It is a brave new world and we are running head long into another dark ages brought on by our tribal fears, ignorance and hatred.

Look only to the many times we, as people, have been snookered into buying into some CAUSE only to find out later that we had again been had.

And, as is the human nature, we are blaming the results on each other and NOT OURSELVES. Again, I charge us who are free as negligent! Time to quit BRAYING about your inheritance and start EARNING it gentlemen.

Say, if I were in total power and if I were confronted with The Information Age, I think that I might cut my losses and use it to my advantage.

Lets see:
1) They can be controlled by their natural traits.
2) I'll use ignorance and tribalism ... those direct results of the primal motive fear.
3) I know they are lazy and sheep by nature.
3) I can get to more of them through this new medium.
4) Boy oh boy, I can really use this one against them.

-30-
now there's a symbol for you.
 
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jwhoff

Premium Member
Brother Dalinkou is on the right track.

If I weren't careful I just might charge him with being a purist "Age of Enlightenment" mason.

Logical thought processes, looking for deeper meanings: all symptoms of that uncontrollable understanding those dastardly masons were so rightly charged with.

Such posts, as I have seen among may of these contributors, steals my heart for the fight ahead.

Still there are those others ... :sneaky2:
 
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Bro Darren

Premium Member
Thank you brother!

Finally something that makes sense.

The further we look into this thing the more we may find that our form of government is a mixture of many of these purist definitions. I know of no nation ruled by one of the structured definitions listed in The ISM textbook.

Russia under "communism" and today is run by an oligarchy. The United States has deep underlying trends of both capitalism and socialism. Neither of which we should let get out of control. Even Iran is not a pure theocracy. Witness its three-way struggle of Islam, a growing middle class and the oligarchy ruling class.

And, should our personal fears ever waver, we will find good AND bad in each of these pure ISM definitions. Much like making a living off the sale of guns and sacret texts the world over, those who rely on fear and ignorance to spread their unjust hatreds try to push us all into a little box: the better to pick us off one by one to satisfy their personal ambitions. Make no mistake, these people are our true enemies!

The fact is that our natural tendency is to break ourselves up into tribal groups. Not a good ideal in a world inhabited by near eight billion people in the midst of an information age that notifies a Nordic medical assistant of the thoughts of an Egyptian activist swayed by the teachings of an American populist who adheres to the teachings of a late 19th century economists who was reacting to the European empires and American Tea Pot Dome scandal of his day.

Add any argument you wish into the above statement, the result is the same. It is a brave new world and we are running head long into another dark ages brought on by our tribal fears, ignorance and hatred.

Look only to the many times we, as people, have been snookered into buying into some CAUSE only to find out later that we had again been had.

And, as is the human nature, we are blaming the results on each other and NOT OURSELVES. Again, I charge us who are free as negligent! Time to quit BRAYING about your inheritance and start EARNING it gentlemen.

Say, if I were in total power and if I were confronted with The Information Age, I think that I might cut my losses and use it to my advantage.

Lets see:
1) They can be controlled by their natural traits.
2) I'll use ignorance and tribalism ... those direct results of the primal motive fear.
3) I know they are lazy and sheep by nature.
3) I can get to more of them through this new medium.
4) Boy oh boy, I can really use this one against them.

-30-
now there's a symbol for you.

Amazing stuff right there - Thank you!

These exact same principles are what drives Anti-Masonic discussions, misconceptions and misinformation that is so ramped today. Those that can master fear and use it correctly, will always attract followers and gain simple control over their lives. By using jwhoff's "Lets see:" principles, leaders all over the world have and still do treat the masses like ignorant sheep and unfortunately most of us are.

Ignorance is bliss as long as you don't take off the blindfold and most choose not to take the blindfold off as they do not want to accept that they are ignorant or sheep!
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
A republic can be socialist or capitalist--neither determines the other. If the constitution of that republic is such that socialism is not prohibited nor capitalism enshrined, then the duly elected representatives can within the boundaries of constitutional constraint, impose socialism. That's the great risk of any form of government in which the people have some say--they might say something foolish or something you don't like. However, I would rather take that risk than be under some central power that pretends to omniscience and omnipotence.
 

BryanMaloney

Premium Member
1) They can be controlled by their natural traits.
2) I'll use ignorance and tribalism ... those direct results of the primal motive fear.
3) I know they are lazy and sheep by nature.
3) I can get to more of them through this new medium.
4) Boy oh boy, I can really use this one against them.

Been listening to Limbaugh and Maddow and taking notes? Looks like somebody else is actually already implementing the nightmare scenario you would want to avoid.
 

jwhoff

Premium Member
Agreed brother!

Both Fox and MSNBC spread misinformation and hatred. They make money catering to the two LOUD MOUTH extremes of the greater populous. Those who wish to prey upon our tribal instincts.

Anyone care to look up and dissect President Ike's parting speech on the subject of demagoguery?

That warning is much more pertinent in today's environment than the day he issued it to the the American people. Time to wake up and become more circumspect ... or loose our freedom to one of these fringe groups.

Freedom is not cheap. And, we're not going to be able to bray, brag, and ride the tailcoats of those who actually EARNED it much longer. When one thinks it's in his best interest to abuse others to save his own freedom, he is on marked time.

Wake up America. You've lost your way. And, as masons, it's time we started thinking over our obligation of The Golden Rule, so eloquently brought to our attention at the reception door of the second degree.

As brethren of this craft, we need to get our butts back to work "working" that Fellowcraft degree. Find out why and what it means to prepare oneself to be a strength in the wall of brotherhood.

Gentlemen, the world depends on you! YOU are the last bastion, the very last hope to bring enlightenment to the world. You can't do that by buying into every dog and pony show coming down main street. You are charged by that degree and those who went before you to enlighten yourself and stand strong against this evil. No matter what side of the spectrum it occupies.

Folks these demagogues want one thing, CONTROL. They will use any angle, any weakness in your armor to take control. Whether that weakness comes from your left or your right.

Freedom is a precious, fleeing target. It is never going to be easy to obtain or hold on to. When you see scapegoats and targets among your neighbors it is time to reconsider your direction.
 
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