Has this occurred?

[Cblack]

With all the discussion about visitation...How many times have members of the GLoTX jurisdiction stood up in GL Session and addressed intervisitation with the PHGLOTX?

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[Blake Bowden]

Both sides have and continue to ignore the issue. I've emailed Grand Masters and Grand Lodge Officers from both GL's and none have responded.

My Freemasonry HD

 

[Cblack]

Has it been brought up during GL Session?

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[tomasball]

Yes. It was brought up two sessions ago. The brethren were informed that the MWPHGLoT had asked for a conversation on intervisitation. The Grand Master ordered the Committee on Fraternal Relations to meet with representatives of the PHGL to work it out and report back at the next grand lodge meeting. The brethren voted to approve the Grand Masters action. The next year, the Committee on Fraternal Relations reported that they had set a date with the PHGL to meet to discuss the subject, but before the date arrived, the PH representatives cancelled the meeting. The Committee on Fraternal Relations stated that they were still ready to meet anytime their PH counterparts wanted to. The membership of Grand Lodge voted to approve their report. So we have twice voted to pursue the matter. I would be interested to know what has been reported and voted on at the MWPHGLoT grand communications.

 

[Cblack]

We have resolution that have been submitted and will be heard in November at Mid Winter..one specifically for an immediate request to amend the current compact with the GLoTX...I will be at Mid Winter Session this year so I can assure you that it will not get passed over...there are a lot of us that want this to take place but I don't mind being the speaker...I'll make sure I keep you all posted on the outcome concerning this

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[Brother JC]

I'll make sure I keep you all posted on the outcome concerning this

Thank you, Brother, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for a favourable outcome.

 

[dfreybur]

We have resolution that have been submitted and will be heard in November at Mid Winter..one specifically for an immediate request to amend the current compact with the GLoTX..

Excellent. Take the moral high ground. At this point what is not needed is response by the grand lines, discussion with the grand lines, whatever. The time for that was the year after the current compact was ratified. It's far past that point. What's needed legislation through the standard process to have a direct vote on the floor, bypassing any possibility of stalling by either grand line.

If either jurisdiction passes a vote on the floor to amend the compact the other jurisdiction immediately occupies the moral low ground. Acceptance should be rapid.

 

[Blake Bowden]

I understand why full visitation wasn't included when the Compact was originally signed in 2007. There were Lodges under the Jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M. who would refuse visitation, much less membership to African Americans in their Lodge. That is a fact. I've been informed that both sides are concerned with racism as many Prince Hall Lodges are content with maintaining the status quo and that "mainstream" are as well.

That being said, both sides have made little to no effort to extend relations.

Will the Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M. take the initiative? Of course not. What's in it for them? Why chance upsetting a small percentage of racists members when they (GLOTX) won't receive any compensation in the form of dues from Prince Hall Masons? I'm not throwing out the word "racists" if I didn't know first hand. I've been called all sorts of names, received threatening emails, etc. Maybe if PHA Masons contributed to the building fund, things would change.

To bring about real change would require the PHGLOTX to make the first move as it would send shockwaves throughout the South and if the GLOTX refused to extend relations how would that look? Not good. Every Freemason Blog, Facebook, Google, Magazine, Newsletter, Twitter and Website would be on this which is why it would be approved and other southern jurisdictions would follow. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately all of my communication to M.W. Wilbert Curtis has been ignored. In my correspondence I informed him that he has an opportunity to fundamentally change Freemasonry. Ignored.

Freemasonry in Texas is a mess and if you think anyone wearing GL (both sides) regalia will do anything, you're in for a surprise. It'll take pressure from YOU.

 

[tomasball]

Brother Blake, I've read a number of your posts where you seem to think that if a Grand Lodge officer doesn't take time to personally correspond with you, it's part of a conspiracy of silence. Grand Masters report at great length to their Grand Lodges every year on their actions and decisions. I imagine that they get thousands of letters from individual masons asking them why they do or don't do certain things. It would unimaginable to me for a Grand Master to regard it as his job to personally report on his actions to every mason who asked.

Tom Ball

 

[dfreybur]

I understand why full visitation wasn't included when the Compact was originally signed in 2007.

You're beyond me in understanding, then. To me if there's recognition there's visitation. If there's no visitation then any claim there is recognition is a word game. I don't care how much a buzzard claims to be a swan - Recognition is fake until the day visitation is allowed.

I'm not throwing out the word "racists" if I didn't know first hand. I've been called all sorts of names, received threatening emails, etc.

When my daughter got married recently my then-not-yet SIL's Mom asked if it was okay to have a controversial minister perform the ceremony. Oh yeah, my wife and I definitely wanted the controversial one! Then I asked why the minister is controversial. "She's black". "No really, why is she controversial". I think I asked three times before it got through my thick head that that WAS the reason. Turns out the minister was so disgusted with her reception in that town she'd already arranged a transfer and that wedding was her last ministerial act before she moved to civilization. Not a town I'll voluntarily set foot in going forward.

So please be sure to send me threatening emails, too. If you don't favor visitation and if you care who's going to be upset by visitation then you're not living up to our principles so be sure to flame me in email. I look forward to them.

To bring about real change would require the PHGLOTX to make the first move as it would send shockwaves throughout the South and if the GLOTX refused to extend relations how would that look? Not good. Every Freemason Blog, Facebook, Google, Magazine, Newsletter, Twitter and Website would be on this which is why it would be approved and other southern jurisdictions would follow. Plain and simple.

I am thrilled to read there is legislation to be voted on at the MWPHAGLofTX annual communication. Take that moral high ground my brothers!

Unfortunately all of my communication to M.W. Wilbert Curtis has been ignored. In my correspondence I informed him that he has an opportunity to fundamentally change Freemasonry. Ignored.

I'm with brother Thomas on that - One letter to the committee on recognition with a CC to the grand line asking when they intend to put a motion on the floor plus an offer to write the legislation yourself. If no response and no legislation on the floor that year, write it and submit it for the next year.

I am currently working through this process in California to amend allowing dual affiliation in their offered agreements.

 

[Blake Bowden]

Brother Blake, I've read a number of your posts where you seem to think that if a Grand Lodge officer doesn't take time to personally correspond with you, it's part of a conspiracy of silence. Grand Masters report at great length to their Grand Lodges every year on their actions and decisions. I imagine that they get thousands of letters from individual masons asking them why they do or don't do certain things. It would unimaginable to me for a Grand Master to regard it as his job to personally report on his actions to every mason who asked.

Tom Ball

There is one exception and that would be PGM Gene Carnes who personally called me. I also worked with current Grand Lodge officers and spent numerous hours at RW Jerry Martins house, not to mention emails and phone calls while working on his presentation as Grand Orator. When I'm needed or the subject matter is something they wish to discuss, the lines of communication are wide open, however mention Prince Hall and things become very quiet. Just ask some of my Moderators, especially the older ones - they've seen the hateful messages sent here. So what you're saying is that every Grand Lodge Officer that I've contacted since 2008 has no time to respond to a single email, especially when the Prince Hall issue is such an important one? I guess sending out letters to install air conditioners at Grand Lodge, sell merchandise or tell us the same story every year on how awesome the Craft is doing in Texas is more important. We see how well that's working out. I would also like to add that we could not obtain a copy of the 2007 Compact from the Grand Lodge of Texas and that it was the Prince Hall Grand Lodge who made it available. Sad really. You can put words in my mouth or make excuses but that is my experience.


My Freemasonry HD

 

[BroBook]

There is one exception and that would be PGM Gene Carnes who personally called me. I also worked with current Grand Lodge officers and spent numerous hours at RW Jerry Martins house, not to mention emails and phone calls while working on his presentation as Grand Orator. When I'm needed or the subject matter is something they wish to discuss, the lines of communication are wide open, however mention Prince Hall and things become very quiet. Just ask some of my Moderators, especially the older ones - they've seen the hateful messages sent here. So what you're saying is that every Grand Lodge Officer that I've contacted since 2008 has no time to respond to a single email, especially when the Prince Hall issue is such an important one? I guess sending out letters to install air conditioners at Grand Lodge, sell merchandise or tell us the same story every year on how awesome the Craft is doing in Texas is more important. We see how well that's working out. I would also like to add that we could not obtain a copy of the 2007 Compact from the Grand Lodge of Texas and that it was the Prince Hall Grand Lodge who made it available. Sad really. You can put words in my mouth or make excuses but that is my experience.


My Freemasonry HD

I think , not know , that the racist on both sides have a right to be until they cross over the real jordon and find they do not have a pass, word or grip that works, but what about the rest of us
Outside of lodge rooms do we walk and talk as if there is a brotherhood of man and fatherhood of GOD no modes of recognition needed except for those you should have had on being entered
Good men better not bad men good that is GOD's job.


BroBook


My Freemasonry HD

 

[BroBook]

I understand why full visitation wasn't included when the Compact was originally signed in 2007. There were Lodges under the Jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M. who would refuse visitation, much less membership to African Americans in their Lodge. That is a fact. I've been informed that both sides are concerned with racism as many Prince Hall Lodges are content with maintaining the status quo and that "mainstream" are as well.

That being said, both sides have made little to no effort to extend relations.

Will the Grand Lodge of Texas A.F. & A.M. take the initiative? Of course not. What's in it for them? Why chance upsetting a small percentage of racists members when they (GLOTX) won't receive any compensation in the form of dues from Prince Hall Masons? I'm not throwing out the word "racists" if I didn't know first hand. I've been called all sorts of names, received threatening emails, etc. Maybe if PHA Masons contributed to the building fund, things would change.

To bring about real change would require the PHGLOTX to make the first move as it would send shockwaves throughout the South and if the GLOTX refused to extend relations how would that look? Not good. Every Freemason Blog, Facebook, Google, Magazine, Newsletter, Twitter and Website would be on this which is why it would be approved and other southern jurisdictions would follow. Plain and simple.

Unfortunately all of my communication to M.W. Wilbert Curtis has been ignored. In my correspondence I informed him that he has an opportunity to fundamentally change Freemasonry. Ignored.

Freemasonry in Texas is a mess and if you think anyone wearing GL (both sides) regalia will do anything, you're in for a surprise. It'll take pressure from YOU.

Masons do have the right not to allow individuals into their lodge or grand lodge for that matter but maybe just maybe that why the world is such a mess the Master sends stones for the building and the fellows of the craft throw
Them into the rubbish pile.


BroBook


My Freemasonry HD

 

[brother josh]

Agreed on that my brother just as if this yr Kentucky recognizes ph as brother but visitation is not allowed I so hope one day this will change we are all made in the image of GOD color should not matter ( race creed or religion) brothers keep fighting for it we know as level head ppl what is right at least what seems reasonable

SMIB


My Freemasonry HD

 

[Brother JC]

Once again I thank the Supreme Architect that I was Raised in a (slightly) enlightened state, and have had the pleasure of sitting in Lodge with my PH Brethren.

 

[Bro. Stewart P.M.]

I think , not know , that the racist on both sides have a right to be until they cross over the real jordon and find they do not have a pass, word or grip that works, but what about the rest of us
Outside of lodge rooms do we walk and talk as if there is a brotherhood of man and fatherhood of GOD no modes of recognition needed except for those you should have had on being entered
Good men better not bad men good that is GOD's job.


BroBook


My Freemasonry HD

And here is where I have to disagree with your opinon. Racism has no part in Freemasonry, period. This underlying racism on both sides of the fence is exactly what is keeping this joint recognition from happening. To assume that everyone "waits until the elders die off" will not fix the issue. Remember, racism is taught not hereditary. As long as "the rest of us" allow this crap to go on, the longer it will continue to happen... old or young.

 

[chrmc]

I do agree that racism may play a part in it, but as far as I understand a much more fundamental piece also is in there - Money.
As I've heard the story, one of the hesitations for the PH side to allow visitation is that their dues often is much higher than on the other side. What would prevent members from being entered, passed and raised in a GLOTX lodge, but just keep visiting the PH lodge of their choice, without having to pay?

 

[Brother JC]

The Lodges I am a member of all have different dues. The Lodges I visit also have different dues. If you are a visitor, you can't vote, hold office, or be a true part of that Lodge's dynamics, so I can't see how this would be an issue.

 

[brother josh]

Once again I thank the Supreme Architect that I was Raised in a (slightly) enlightened state, and have had the pleasure of sitting in Lodge with my PH Brethren.

I hope one day my state will realize how none masonic it is for not allowing the visitation


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[BroBook]

Money? I heard that as a young mason
About the two bodies claiming PH in fl ,I
Believed the brother I think he later achieved
G.M. I must add that I considered him as a brother although we did not hang out.


My Freemasonry HD