How does this go??

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by mrpierce17, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Ok maybe someone can explain this one to me I am a member of The Most Worshipful Union GL of FL PHA , & looking at the UGLE website and they don't show current recognition to FL PHA as of yet although the do recognize the Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of MA witch I am a honorary member of , so my question is let's say I wanted to join Internet lodge would they except me ???
     
  2. Bro. Stewart P.M.

    Bro. Stewart P.M. Lead Moderator Emeritus Staff Member

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    The question that you are asking will be more easily and accurately answered by representation of the "Internet Lodge". From what information that I can gather from the UGLE website, you are correct in that the GL you belong to is not Recognised by them. http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges

    I would refer your question to the site that you are attempting to join.
     
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  3. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    The Grand Lodge of Florida has senior rights when it comes to the sovereign jurisdiction. Therefore in order to gain recognition with the UGLE, you first have to be recognized by the jurisdiction in which your GL resides. Think of it as connecting the dots. The Grand Lodge and PHA lodge in FL need to get together and establish recognition and visitation.

    This is why you do not see Georgia, South Carolina, etc on UGLE list either.

    Edited: Your question could best be answered by the Internet Lodge. From my readings of their site (I was interested in it too) you need to be a Mason in good standing (paying dues) in a lodge that is recognized by the UGLE.

    Do you have any kind of official identification on you that says you are a member of a particular lodge in MA that the secretary can attest that you are indeed a card carrying member?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
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  4. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Another issue is whether your grand lodge allows plural or dual memberships.
     
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  5. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Makes sense
     
  6. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I believe this should do and I am a MM in good standing of MWUGLofFL ImageUploadedByMy Freemasonry1421155697.992027.jpg ImageUploadedByMy Freemasonry1421155715.925159.jpg
     
  7. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    Any hints at FL moving towards mutual recognition?
     
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  8. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I believe this is the one exception with dual membership in Prince Hall Masonry African lodge No.459 & MWPHGL of Mass
     
  9. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    I can only pray that the GAOTU put it in our brethren's hearts to meet each other on the Level here in FL
     
  10. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    That's my point. That is a Prince Hall lodge and it is honorary. But joining the internet lodge which has a warrant from the UGLE directly, is like trying to join another grand lodge.
     
  11. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    That's why I like this forum ask questions get answers
     
  12. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    Normally Honourary members are not count as members, except you have the grand lodge certificate or other documents from the grand lodge that accept you as a member of that grand lodge.
    If your mother grand lodge don't allow you for plural GLs membership then you can't join the Internet Lodge here because you'll be an official UGLE members for joining this Internet Lodge and you'll received a GL certificate from the UGLE.
    However there's no recognition TO the "Union Grand Lodge of Florida", "Stringer Grand Lodge of Mississippi" and some other PHGLs from the UGLE. So you may need to resign your GL and join the recognised one that allow plural GLs membership to join the Internet Lodge of UGLE if you want to join.
     
  13. Mike Martin

    Mike Martin Eternal Apprentice Premium Member

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    Just to add some meat to MBC's response:

    On receipt of your application to become a Joining Member of the Internet Lodge No. 9659, its Secretary will make enquiries with the Grand Secretary's Office at Freemasons' Hall in London who will talk to the Grand Secretary of your own Grand Lodge to verify your bona fides.

    If you are not a member of a Grand Lodge that is recognised by the UGLE your application will be rejected.

    Having just properly read the document you have shown above your "Honourary" Membership is predicated upon your actual membership of another PHA Lodge rather than you being a member of a Lodge under MWPHAGL of Mass. The certificate is from the Lodge, it is not from the Grand Lodge, so it will not count.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2015
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  14. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    Yes Brother Martin is correct.
    Thank you Brother for more explanations.
     
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  15. mrpierce17

    mrpierce17 KOP Council director / Lodge instructor Premium Member

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    Thank you for clearing that up that is the answer I was looking
     
  16. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    You had kinda already answered your own question cause if your grand lodge does not permit dual or plural memberships, then even if you were a member of MWPHGLMa or any PH Grand Lodge that the UGLE recognizes; you would still not be permitted to join another grand lodge. That is to the best of my understanding and grant it, I am still learning.
     
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  17. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    My question is....is that pha lodge a real gl? Every pha lodge i have ever seen is MWPHGLofXX. Ive never seen MWanythingelseofXXX
     
  18. MBC

    MBC Twice Registered User Premium Member

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    "Union" GL and "Stringer" GL are the two Prince Hall GLs got generally accepted in all US jurisdictions but just simply not the UGLE.
    Your grand lodge should recognised these two GLs and you should check it up yourselves.
     
  19. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    Interesting that you mention that since your grand lodge recognizes the Prince Hall grand lodge in your state since 1997 according to http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm which may be out of date but still has useful information and UGLE http://www.ugle.org.uk/about/foreign-grand-lodges . Visitation may or may not be allowed as I couldn't find a definitive source but you can always contact the secretary of your lodge or your grand lodge for further information.
     
  20. MRichard

    MRichard Mark A. Ri'chard Premium Member

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    There are other Prince Hall grand lodges not recognized in other states as well. They are regular but these are mainly southern states where other issues may come into play with the exception of West Virginia (not considered a southern state). Prince Hall grand lodges are not recognized in Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, Florida, West Virginia, Georgia, Tennesse, Alabama, & South Carolina. If you look at the UGLE site, it would appear that that there are only around 30 Prince Hall grand lodges recognized but some of the Prince Hall states were chartered by a Prince Hall grand lodge in another state so it gets a little confusing at times to the best of my knowledge.
     

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