Is A Reconciliation Between The Catholic Church And Freemasonry Possible?

Discussion in 'Masonic Blogs' started by My Freemasonry, Apr 10, 2016.

  1. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

    That is ur religions belief..not all....using the word ABSURD is a little outta line

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  2. DwayneM

    DwayneM Registered User

    I'm sorry if I made myself misunderstood. The fact that marriage is by definition the exclusive union between one man and one woman for the purpose of binding them as a couple and for procreation and raising children is not just some religious babble. It's a fact. Two men or two women can't procreate. Any multiples of either sex do not constitute an exclusive union, and any ability to dissolve the union makes it only an agreement, with no more weight than a contract. Numerous scientific, psychological and sociological studies have borne this out. So yes, saying this fact can be rendered meaningless is absurd. I do not mean it as an insulting word; it's the only appropriate one.
    It's like saying I have an airplane that doesn't have wings or fly, but it has jet engines and wheels. It's not an airplane, no matter what you call it, and it's absurd to call it an airplane, because it doesn't meet the definition of an airplane.

    All that aside, even, my point is the Pope is not saying the church's teaching on the matters noted has changed.
  3. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

    Hey man I also agree that my religion says a marriage is between a man and a woman, but thats strictly a religious edict. Some religions say a person can have .multiple spouses....also you say its for procreation, what about people can't or dont want kids...does that mean that they arent really married? And as for dissolution of marriage.... it happens...only religion says you shouldnt do it....telling someone they are wrong because ur religious beliefs is wrong and makes u no better then the terrorists.

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  4. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

    You ignore that the word has both a secular and religious definition.

    You ignore that other religions or sects exist and they use different religious definitions.

    The landmark against discussing religion does not in theory apply here because this is not a tiled forum, but the landmark exits for an extremely good reason.
    tldubb, drw72, Bloke and 2 others like this.
  5. flameburns623

    flameburns623 Registered User

    Leo XIII rooted his condemnation of Freemasonry on two things:

    1). The staunch opposition of the Catholic Church of his day to the ideas of the Enlightenment and of Classical Liberalism. Philosophically, Pope Leo (and his successors until Vatican II) were wed to sociopolitical ideas rooted in monarchy, aristocracy, and pre-modern social order.

    This has changed in our generation. The documents of Vatican II, and the Popes since at least that time, have come to a greater rapprochement between Catholic Dogma and modern democratic systems. It is no longer a sin to believe, openly, in a democratic republic.

    2). The Pope was jaundiced against all things Masonic not only by the excesses of Continental (Grand Orient) Freemasonry, particularly the French Revolution; but also other anticlerical movements heavily influenced by known Freemasons who were simultaneously virulently hostile to hierarchical and dogmatic Christian churches, particularly the Roman Catholic church. Leo XIII would have been most familiar with Masonic inspired movements which were highly political, and which were wresting influence (and property) away from the RCC.

    Leo would have been less aware, IMHO, of mainstream, English-speaking Freemasonry, which has always been noticeably less politicized.

    Moreover, until the pist-WWII era, particularly following the aforementioned Council of VII, the Catholic Church was opposed to and condemned the sort of ecumenism which is central to Freemasonry. Since VII, of course, the RCC has been a leader in the ecumenical movement.

    So I think there is considerable wiggle room for the RCC to move towards a friendlier embrace of Freemasonry. As with relations with the Eastern Orthodox Church, there remain things to work out. And Catholicism is the absolute paragon of "deliberate speed": change comes very gradually to Her.

    But, yes, there is hope. IMHO.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
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  6. John B Heaton

    John B Heaton Registered User

    As a Free Mason, I have been asked by an organization to which I belong, Society of the Military Order of the Temple at Jerusalem (SMOTJ), to not mention my Masonic associations in a 'don't ask, don't tell' missive sent out by the organization. The majority of members of this group are Roman Catholic. I have also noted that the Knights of Malta organization has levied the same ruling. As a Protestant and a Master Mason I don't really see any co-operation in the future.
  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

    Got to agree. Not in the near future anyway.

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