is it a requirement US legal status to join the Freemasonry?

Discussion in 'Frequently Asked Questions' started by ryorta, Oct 7, 2009.

  1. ryorta

    ryorta Registered User

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    Is it a requirement US legal status to join the Freemasonry?

    What if someone who doesn't even have a passport or visa, but he is willing to follow the responsibilities and duties, meets, and the principles of masonry. Is there any exception, something that can be modified?

    Is there anybody, directly or indirectly, involved in this situation can answer my question?
     
  2. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    All Grand Lodges have some sort of residency requirement.

    But if you're talking about someone who is here in the US illegally, it does raise some flags. I would say someone living in the territory of a Grand Lodge illegally should not petition until such time that they are legal.
     
  3. JTM

    JTM "Just in case" Premium Member

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    is being here illegally a felony? honest question, because i don't really know.
     
  4. ryorta

    ryorta Registered User

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    For the USCIS and Federal Government, does.

    But I thought Freemasonry doesn't discriminate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  5. ryorta

    ryorta Registered User

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    Looking at the fact that there's more than 12 million people illegally residing here in the US. What if some of these members would love to join their local lodge?

    In this case, it means that freemasonry is affiliated with the federal government and USCIS. Can someone be allowed to deny to provide this information? Does it affect in the petition?

    What about illegal college students who were raised here in the US? Is there any chances for any of them?
     
  6. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    not to sound like a jerk,but i wouldnt vote for someone if their illegal. let them go through the steps to become a legal citizen,than come back to be voted on.
     
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  7. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    This is a sad quandary. Over the generations, many good men have come to America seeking a better life. As time has passed the laws pertaining to entry and residence have grown more complicated. Most any Lodge would welcome a good man seeking light ,no matter where he is from. Being here illegal does raise various ethical issues. Why is the individual here illegally? What are they doing to rectify the illegality? If an individual is here illegally and doing nothing about it (apply for citizenship, Visa, Etc) , I'm not sure they are ready for the Masons.
     
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  8. C_Cabra

    C_Cabra Registered User

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    It's not a sad quandary. Illegal aliens are by the very definition of "illegal aliens" breaking the law and they continue to do so every day that they are here. Not to mention many of them are committing identity theft, stealing from our healthcare system, our school system etc. Freemasons are tolerant of and extend a helping hand to... A Worthy brother and (in my opinion) those outside the fraternity that attempt to help themselves. Legally - as opposed to helping themselves to the money in the offering plate while no one is looking.

    Freemasons are NOT the "doormat of tolerance" for all segments of society to come to with their woes no matter how "ill gotten" their problems are. In my opinion of course. Say to me that you are black, or gay, or a Mormon and you have been descriminated against at a lodge and I will say to you that you were wronged but tell me we should open our doors to illegal aliens and I will tell you that you are smoking crack.

    Underage children are obviously a different story and deserve charity. Grown children of illegal aliens who are themselves illegal have the advantage of language and culture over their parents to get themselves legal. None of them have an excuse as to why they remain in this country illegally. Again in my opinion.

    I have shared a lodge room with plenty of brothers from foreign lands all here legally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
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  9. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    The sad quandary would involve someone who would be a good Mason with the exception of being here illegal. In fact I said someone illegal is not prepared to petition.

    As for everything else you said, I hope it felt good to get that off your chest.
     
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  10. C_Cabra

    C_Cabra Registered User

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    I'm not sure what it's like where you live in Lousiana but around here that is not getting it off your chest. That is being polite. Illegal immigration is an epidemic here.

    Last year my wife was nearly pulled from her car in a Home Depot parking lot by a mob of illegal aliens. Was she waving down workers to help her build her deck in her king cab work truck? No she was on her way to pick up some air filters in her two door coupe.

    A few months ago an illegal alien killed a man while drink driving. Sad enough. Made even more tragic that he had been arrested 3 times before for drink driving but because of people "looking the other way" he wasn't deported and because he was an illegal and through a technicality he wasn't sentenced to jail time. He also didn't have insurance or a drivers license.

    Earlier this year my renter, who is a nursing student at UT, witnessed two vehicles collide and pulled 7 children and the parents from a burning SUV off of highway 812 outside of Austin. None of them spoke a word of english. It comes out in the paper a week later that they are all illegal aliens with no drivers license or insurance. And no health insurance would be my guess.

    Last month this same nursing student comes home from a clinical telling us about a baby with SCIDs that they are having to take care of. Free of charge of course. It's parents are illegal aliens and first cousins. They have 8 other children who all have mental retardation or some other form of disability related to inbreeding.

    So believe me when I say that I am not "getting it off my chest" I am not even scratching the surface. These accounts are just a drop in the bucket. Google illegal alien and dialysis in the same search for a start.

    I think Good Mason and Illegal used to describe the same individual is what you would call an oxymoron.
     
  11. Nate Riley

    Nate Riley Premium Member

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    Thats incorrect. We descrimate against several groups. When it comes to joining our fraternity atheists, criminals and folks with severe mental issues to name a couple. We don't allow masonic dealings with clandestine, suspended or expelled masons.

    Agreed!
     
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  12. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    So you think a citizen of the United Kingdom here on an expired visa (illegally) doesn't have the potential to be a good Mason?

    This got blown way out of proportion. I understand that illegals are an ongoing problem, I am a native Texan. But the question did not specify from where the candidate comes or give all the circumstances.

    And again, I said if you're illegal it's not the time to petition. So whats your beef with me? Can I help you find your compasses.
     
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  13. C_Cabra

    C_Cabra Registered User

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    Your first statement is all about semantics. I think we can both agree that a foreigner on an expired visa and someone who sneaks across the border are different - Assuming that the expired visa is a technicality and the foreigner in question has or had every intention of complying with our laws.

    Someone who sneaks across the border in the dark of night has never had the intention or the appearance of following our laws.

    Brother I have no beef with you. I simply commented and expressed my disagreement with your original statement and made some commentary on your post and all those that preceded it (by different authors). This is a big issue here( in Texas) and I personally don't feel there is any room for debate when it comes to illegal aliens ( and I don't mean the guy who is a month late renewing his visa) I don't want to share the road with them, the hospital, or the construction site. I don't think they should be here so the last place I would expect to see them is in my Lodge or any Lodge within these borders for that matter.

    I disagree with your statement that it is a sad quandary. I have no empathy for an illegal aliens need for fellowship within our fold. If we were to accept illegal aliens in our lodges it would only serve to validate their behavior and undermine the rule of law in our country.

    I did see that you stated that it was not the time for them to petition.
    My contention is that if they are the "sneak over the border and live in the shadows circumventing the rule of law" illegal alien there is never a time for them to petition now or in the future. It is a life of crime they lead irrespective of the bleeding hearts and the profiteers turning a blind eye.

    Yes I am a bit passionate on this subject. Please don't feel as if I directed anything at you personally. I am actually sitting here very calm and collected and not cursing and shaking my fist at your moniker. I just have a position and I am not ashamed to share it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  14. MGM357

    MGM357 Registered User

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    When an induvidual petitions a lodge, isn't one the questions asked on the petition is do you live within the district of the lodge ? If a brother from another country wants to join another lodge, he should obtain a certificate of good standing from his home lodge.

    We have an EA from a lodge in Mexico, and it's a lodge recognized by the GL. The brother is going to college here to become a lawyer. He wants to join our lodge. The first day he came to our lodge he already had his certificate of good standing.
     
  15. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    You see, I never even thought that it would be a sneak across the border kind of situation. Pablo the grapefruit picker isn't going to be petitioning the Lodge. I never even perceived the question in that frame. That's where the yellow and blue we got crossed.

    I don't really disagree with your views on illegals. However, it could make a good thread.

    The subject of immigration has nothing to do with the following:
    Anytime someone is cut off from the light, it is sad. That doesn't cross over into any social, economic, or political issue. That's all I was getting at. If a man is on the path but can find no mentors or brethren, he is alone in the world. A very sad place to be.

    I'm glad we're still friends. :grouphug:
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  16. Sirius

    Sirius Registered User

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    A certificate of good standing is issued to a member of a Lodge. So if you're not a Mason already there is no certificate to get.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  17. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    :fencing::amen::boink::rockon:
     
  18. Hippie19950

    Hippie19950 Premium Member

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    Having dealt with many of the illegal aliens from SOB in my career as a Peace Officer, I can tell you that many of them have absolutely no intention of ever being legal in anything they do. Some are here, trying to find a better life, and have the ability to do good, but the only way they found at the time, was to sneak across the border illegally. My Grandfather came here from Germany in the early 1900's, but worked to become a legal resident, and a U.S. Citizen. It was a long and hard journey for him, as well as many others. The system may be more complicated now as we look back, but it was just as hard then as it is now. If those coming here, would work to become legal, it would be much better. I have made arrests, and part of the sentencing was for them to be deported to Mexico. That was all good and well, but these same people would show up within 6 months again... Another point you are missing, I had to supply a copy of my Birth Certificate, and State Identification (D.L.), and unless it is a forgery, most of the illegal's can't do that. I being born a Yankee, do not speak Spanish, so I would not understand their work when it was turned in... :)
     
  19. C_Cabra

    C_Cabra Registered User

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    It crossed mine. I belong to a lodge with plenty of working class folks. There's no difference between them and that illegal guy except he's illegal and does it cheaper. "Pablo the grapefruit picker" is also Pablo the Electrician, Pablo the Carpenter, Pablo the sheetrocker, and Pablo the stone worker. Just like some of the guys at my lodge. Except the guys at my lodge have auto insurance, drivers licenses, health insurance, pay taxes, and follow laws. They also want to work for a living wage and don't live ten people to a home.

    I don't think illegals are subhuman and I won't insult their intelligence thinking everyone that sneaks across the border is here to do something as menial as picking grapefruit (not that you insuated that either). I have been working in construction for a long time and there are some very skilled trades that have become dominated by illegal aliens. I'm not fooled into thinking they just mow your lawn and pick your fruit or do all the jobs "no one wants to do". That right there is the biggest lie of the 21st century if you ask me. I don't know one carpenter, sheetrocker, painter, etc that wouldn't like to do his job but can't because an illegal does it cheaper.

    As to being cut off from the light - Men choose their own path. No one forced them across the border illegally and into a life of crime.

    It's been nice chatting with you Brother Sirius :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009
  20. scottmh59

    scottmh59 Registered User

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    and i do not want to hear the work given back in spanish:target:
     

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