T
T.N. Sampson
Guest
This thread addresses issues brought up by the widows son,and is one of several addressing the different topics he raised.
As well, most of the technologies and methods that medieval Europeans learned from Muslims were what Muslims had learned from the Chinese and Indians. Finally, much ‘Islamic’ learning was actually Persian, as Persia had been an intellectual crossroads, being influenced by Chinese, Indian and Byzantium thinkers.
The truth is that Islam demands the abdication and abandonment of the faculty of reason. In Islam, faith and reason are fundamentally incompatible, an attitude deriving from the capricious behavior of Allah himself in the Koran. Natural laws are seen as abridgments of Allah’s freedom to act, and are therefore looked upon with suspicion by Muslim theologians. The formation and investigation of natural laws thus becomes a form of blasphemy, which tends to throw cold water on scientific investigations of those laws.
Moses Maimonides (12[SUP]th[/SUP] Century AD) described the thinking:
As you can imagine, the lack of natural laws makes the universe completely incomprehensible, and the superiority of Sharia law over natural law does not promote scientific development. But as a last proof of Islam’s anti-science focus, bear this in mind: despite taking over the great centers of Greek and Babylonian learning, by the 13[SUP]th[/SUP]century Europe had overtaken the Islamic world in virtually every field of science and technology.
As to your list of Muslim ‘scientific ‘inventions,’ you did not cite your source; however, whatever it was, I’d recommend you find a new one. Here are some comments on your list:
1. Coffee – First grew in Ethiopia and Islam had nothing to do with it. It was not invented, but rather found, accidentally by most accounts.
2. Pinhole camera – First described in 5th Century BC in China; also Euclid and Aristotle described the effect.
3. Chess – First noted in 6th century AD in India.
4. Parachute – some mention of Chinese use in the1100’s. DaVinci sketched one as the first picture noted.
5. Shampoo – Not until 1860 was the word so-defined. Bodily cleanliness goes back to far ancient times.
6. Refinement( distillery) – found in China 800BC.
7. Crank shaft – goes back to 3rd century AD
8. Metal Armor – Roman empire used it, so did Japan in the 4th century AD.
9. The pointed arch – dates from pre-Islamic times
10. Surgery – Roman empire
11. Vaccination – 10th century China
12. Fountain pen – 19th century American had first workable model.
13. Windmill and bridge mill – Persia 644AD.
14. Numerical numbering – India, though Arabs disseminated it.
15. Soup – old as cooking
16. Carpets – predates Islam
17. Pay cheques – (??)
18. Spherical shape of the earth(concept) – Goes back to Socrates.
19. Rocket - China, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century AD; torpedo –Dutch, 1585AD
20. Gardens – Egypt, 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century BC.
21. The discovery and isolation of Acetic acid (Greece, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Century BC), Citric acid (8[SUP]th[/SUP]century AD, Persia; isolated in 1784 by a Swede), Nitric acid (13[SUP]th[/SUP]century Europe), sulfuric acid (Greece, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century; Sumerians hadit as well), hydrochloric and Tartaric acid (attributed to Hayyan, 9[SUP]th[/SUP]century).
22. Tin glazing –Assyrians, 9th century
In truth, ‘Islamic science’ originated very little, though certainly did improve on the many discoveries of the Greeks, Persians, Indians and Chinese. But I’d say history shows it happened in spite of Islamic theological thinking, not because of it.
One can contrast that with the scientific thought of Europe, which was triggered by Christian concepts that stressed God’s rationality. One need look no further than Isaac Newton,whose guiding principle was the examination of the physical universe in order to reveal the majesty of God’s design. You might also examine the history of monasteries, especially the Benedictine order, which were the centers of learning and scientific thought between the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] – 12[SUP]th[/SUP] centuries. Such monasteries also kept alive the great books of Greece through their libraries. Cordially, Skip.
The issue is not whether Muslims are anti-science, but rather that Islam itself is. When the Islamic armies took over a country in the 7th and 8th centuries, the inhabitants had three choices: convert, die, or live in servitude. Most converted and took upon themselves Arabic names to survive. The empires that those armies overcame were highly developed for their times and the Muslim conquerors, mainly illiterate, benefitted from the captured wealth, which included their libraries, universities and traditions of learning. The Muslim rulers allowed them to continue, and while many wrote in Arabic and went under Arabic names, they were neitherArab nor Muslim, but rather Christians and Jews working under Arabic regimes.Widow’s Son said:
As well, most of the technologies and methods that medieval Europeans learned from Muslims were what Muslims had learned from the Chinese and Indians. Finally, much ‘Islamic’ learning was actually Persian, as Persia had been an intellectual crossroads, being influenced by Chinese, Indian and Byzantium thinkers.
The truth is that Islam demands the abdication and abandonment of the faculty of reason. In Islam, faith and reason are fundamentally incompatible, an attitude deriving from the capricious behavior of Allah himself in the Koran. Natural laws are seen as abridgments of Allah’s freedom to act, and are therefore looked upon with suspicion by Muslim theologians. The formation and investigation of natural laws thus becomes a form of blasphemy, which tends to throw cold water on scientific investigations of those laws.
Moses Maimonides (12[SUP]th[/SUP] Century AD) described the thinking:
Another 12[SUP]th[/SUP]century Islamic philosopher, Averroes, saw that there is only one truth, and that being religious law. It has been argued that his view was that one should follow the results of reason as far as they led, but if the conclusions reached contradicted divine revelation, they could not be true in any absolute sense. In this, it seems he was trying to split the hair between faith and reason.
As you can imagine, the lack of natural laws makes the universe completely incomprehensible, and the superiority of Sharia law over natural law does not promote scientific development. But as a last proof of Islam’s anti-science focus, bear this in mind: despite taking over the great centers of Greek and Babylonian learning, by the 13[SUP]th[/SUP]century Europe had overtaken the Islamic world in virtually every field of science and technology.
As to your list of Muslim ‘scientific ‘inventions,’ you did not cite your source; however, whatever it was, I’d recommend you find a new one. Here are some comments on your list:
1. Coffee – First grew in Ethiopia and Islam had nothing to do with it. It was not invented, but rather found, accidentally by most accounts.
2. Pinhole camera – First described in 5th Century BC in China; also Euclid and Aristotle described the effect.
3. Chess – First noted in 6th century AD in India.
4. Parachute – some mention of Chinese use in the1100’s. DaVinci sketched one as the first picture noted.
5. Shampoo – Not until 1860 was the word so-defined. Bodily cleanliness goes back to far ancient times.
6. Refinement( distillery) – found in China 800BC.
7. Crank shaft – goes back to 3rd century AD
8. Metal Armor – Roman empire used it, so did Japan in the 4th century AD.
9. The pointed arch – dates from pre-Islamic times
10. Surgery – Roman empire
11. Vaccination – 10th century China
12. Fountain pen – 19th century American had first workable model.
13. Windmill and bridge mill – Persia 644AD.
14. Numerical numbering – India, though Arabs disseminated it.
15. Soup – old as cooking
16. Carpets – predates Islam
17. Pay cheques – (??)
18. Spherical shape of the earth(concept) – Goes back to Socrates.
19. Rocket - China, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century AD; torpedo –Dutch, 1585AD
20. Gardens – Egypt, 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century BC.
21. The discovery and isolation of Acetic acid (Greece, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Century BC), Citric acid (8[SUP]th[/SUP]century AD, Persia; isolated in 1784 by a Swede), Nitric acid (13[SUP]th[/SUP]century Europe), sulfuric acid (Greece, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] century; Sumerians hadit as well), hydrochloric and Tartaric acid (attributed to Hayyan, 9[SUP]th[/SUP]century).
22. Tin glazing –Assyrians, 9th century
In truth, ‘Islamic science’ originated very little, though certainly did improve on the many discoveries of the Greeks, Persians, Indians and Chinese. But I’d say history shows it happened in spite of Islamic theological thinking, not because of it.
One can contrast that with the scientific thought of Europe, which was triggered by Christian concepts that stressed God’s rationality. One need look no further than Isaac Newton,whose guiding principle was the examination of the physical universe in order to reveal the majesty of God’s design. You might also examine the history of monasteries, especially the Benedictine order, which were the centers of learning and scientific thought between the 9[SUP]th[/SUP] – 12[SUP]th[/SUP] centuries. Such monasteries also kept alive the great books of Greece through their libraries. Cordially, Skip.
