Knights of columbus?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by JMartinez, Feb 13, 2015.

  1. Flatworlder

    Flatworlder Registered User

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    This is certainly a very deep subject.
     
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Premium Member

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    Very interesting. This is why I have my reservations about the church and their politics.
     
  3. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Could one say the same of Grand Lodges?
     
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  4. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    No offense to brother here but how could anyone want to be a member of Catholic church? Think with the church? Are you kidding me? And while I'm on the subject the Pope is supposed to be God's representative on Earth right? Chosen by God? Then why is there an election? And why is it not unanimous evertime?
     
  5. JMartinez

    JMartinez Registered User

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    Those questions have ignorance all over them. It's called FAITH for a reason. You would think a Mason of all people would be wise enough not to shun or dismiss other peoples beliefs!
     
    mrm113 likes this.
  6. pointwithinacircle2

    pointwithinacircle2 Rapscallion Premium Member

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    Churches, Grand Lodges, and people in general have a tendency to allow their thinking to devolve into fundamentalism. Perhaps when this happens we should be careful to rally against the the thinking and not the institution or person.
     
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  7. Brother_Steve

    Brother_Steve Premium Member

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    If I recall correctly, one of the furthermores has to deal with grand lodge unless I'm thinking of the oath an incoming master takes.

    Either way, we can't join the club and then rail against the machine (within reason, anyway)

    It's like moving next to an airport then suing them because you cannot sleep. :p
     
  8. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    One of the difficulties in Australia at least is that the obligation required of the candidate is 3 fold: to the GAOTU, to the GL and to the lodge. This is rather a surprise to many candidates, but if they do not swear allegiance to the GL then they cannot become Masons in that order.

    In my case I had been in another Masonic order and sworn always to regard the initiating lodge as my mother lodge. When I came into another craft order, I was initiated again and despite my previous swearing about my mother lodge was required to do so again for the new mother lodge.

    So I was obliged to break a sworn obligation to be initiated in the later order. Surely that made me void of all moral worth.

    In Australia there is an offence called "third line forcing". For example it is illegal to require that before you buy a car you must agree to have it serviced only by a particular dealer.

    A parallel could be made in Masonry: we will only make you a Mason if you swear only to deal with this particular GL.

    Is this a moral position to take?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  9. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Im not shunning your religious beliefs. If u wanted to say i was shunning anything it would be the church hierarchies. Not the catholic faith itself. But can u answer the question about the Pope? Why is there an election and why is it not unanimous every time? And why is the college of cardinals aloud to discuss who they will vote for? That seems more like picking the chairman of a committee in congress then the spiritual leader who is said to be Gods personal representative on Earth......these are legitimate questions i have had for years and no catholic has ever been able to answer.
     
  10. JMartinez

    JMartinez Registered User

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    The popes job is to interpret the bible, just as congress would interpret the constitution. As for the electoral process; in many ways it is no different then how masons elect a worshipful master, who we choose to represent the roll of King Solomon in his temple. We would hope the worshipful masters we elect possess some of Solomon's traits; understanding and wisdom. We hope the pope we elect possess hope, faith, and piety. Catholics believe the pope is infallible only in regards to faith.
     
  11. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    As long as there's a mechanism to quit or to switch to another jurisdiction I don't get the objection.

    My mother jurisdiction allows multiple affiliation and so I only petition other jurisdictions that also allow multiple affiliations. I'm now a member in 3 jurisdictions. I could resign from the others I just chose not to. The result is I'm bound by the most restrictive combination of the rules of all 3 to the extent that any difference in rules come to my knowledge. Most of the rules are similar in general and a lot only apply while in lodge at a jurisdiction so there aren't a lot of opportunities for conflicting rules.
     
  12. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I live in a condo and asked a priest who also lives here if I could join the Catholic Church being a Freemason. He told me it would be O.K.
     
  13. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    And the Vatican says this isn't something that's up to parish priests. Yes, I know that lots of American priests ignore it, but they're not supposed to.
     
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  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    True.
     
  15. drw72

    drw72 Premium Member

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    Br. Martinez, et al…

    I am a Catholic, former member of the KofC, and Past Grand Knight. I first joined when I was 18 and then dropped out when I joined the military. When I retired I decided to rejoin and start over. I was an active member until last year when I decided to join the Masons.

    From my personal experience I can say that I whole heartedly agree with Br. Guerrero’s reply (#16). I have found the fraternity in Freemasonry much more genuine and the degree work much more valuable.

    But I am not here to criticize the KofC or any other fraternity so back to the question at hand.

    “As a Catholic Mason, I constantly find myself looking for the definitive answer from the Church regarding Masonry”
    Unfortunately I was looking for the same thing when I was deliberating joining the Masons. I found that there is no definitive answer as well as plenty of hypocrisy….read my post here (http://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/does-freemasonry-accept-catholics.19977/page-3#post-149337)

    According to the KofC.org website:
    What are the requirements?
    Membership in the Knights of Columbus is open to men 18 years of age or older who are practical (that is, practicing) Catholics in union with the Holy See.

    What is a practical Catholic?
    A practical Catholic accepts the teaching authority of the Catholic Church on matters of faith and morals, aspires to live in accord with the precepts of the Catholic Church, and is in good standing in the Catholic Church.

    So to me the plain and simple answer is (technically) you cannot be a KofC if you are a Mason. But as others have said some do get away with it due to the KofC not knowing of just ignoring it.

    I took care of any equivocation or reservation in my mind by resigning from the KofC when I became a Mason.
     
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  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    This is not an unusual obligation.

    I am unclear as to the manner in which you are using terms. You indicate you were in another "Masonic order" and then you were "initiated" into another "craft order", each having a "mother lodge." In my experience, there are not multiple orders within the craft. In my experience, one is only initiated into a craft lodge one time, unless one has been a clandestine Mason. I am aware of no Masonic order which declares it to be your "mother lodge" in lieu of your craft lodge.
     
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  17. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Same here.
     
  18. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    Perhaps reading my post again might clarify the situation
     
  19. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    No, it didn't. Would you care to do so?
     
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  20. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    This dude is straight off his rocker 99.999999% of the time...has he ever told us where her hails from?
     

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