LandMarks, use them or not?

Discussion in 'Masonic Jurisprudence' started by R. Jacques Johnson, May 18, 2016.

  1. R. Jacques Johnson

    R. Jacques Johnson Registered User

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    I personally believe in the 25 masonic landmarks and what they preserve. Does your Grand Lodge officially recognize the Landmarks. When you read them do they raise more questions than answers like they do for me?
    #1. Modes of Recognition.
    Really! Really? Is it just me or does this make you laugh? I have seen this vary from two lodges in the same district. I have seen differences in every state that I have belonged and the typical answer I usually receive is each state is slightly different but we are all the same. LOL.Really! Really? I just thought is was an interesting topic to discuss. What are you feelings about the landmarks? Be nice!
     
  2. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    http://bessel.org/landmark.htm
     
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  3. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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  4. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    This is incorrect for NM, NM uses Mackeys Landmarks. In the higherarkey of NM it goes Constitution and Laws, Mackeys, Lodge By laws!
     
  5. coachn

    coachn Coach John S. Nagy Premium Member

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    Awesome. You might want to notify the website.
     
  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    The landmarks are the original unwritten rules of speculative Masonry. If your jurisdiction has a written list that doesn't mean that list is the actual unwritten rules. It means that the points on the list are accepted in that jurisdiction but they aren't to be taken as the entire unwritten list.

    The stuff we learn at the altar is different in small details jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most Brothers blur the motions so it's hard to tell. Find someone on the board that issues certificates to see the exact movements. Then find someone on the board in another state and compare. The differences will be subtle but real. Exact direction the feet are pointing. Straight line movements versus circular movements. Thumbs up or not at one point.

    Except the second degree. The variation there is so large even the order of the movements is different. In Texas there's a point where I'm the only Brother in the room with one hand not up at one point unless I am very careful to do it the local order not the order I learned.
     
  7. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    I just learned last month that the signs are done in a 4 count in NM.
     
  8. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Yup. And you know how hard that makes it for me to do CA signs in a five-count?
     
  9. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Arms moving at the same time versus arms moving together. It's a point easy to miss when you watch it happening, but it's not easy to do it other than the first way you learn. The CA five count is from the verbal instructions given to the candidate when conducted to the south after the obligation. The words are not in the ritual in Illinois the four-count state I know.
     
  10. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Oh, I think most GLs recognize Landmarks. We just don't agree what they are.
     
  11. Benjamin Baxter

    Benjamin Baxter Moderator Staff Member

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    I just listened to a podcast on landmarks. Very interesting. The pod cast is x-oriente.


    Sent from my iPhone using My Freemasonry Pro
     
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  12. Pete Ramboldt

    Pete Ramboldt Registered User

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    Wisconsin does not recognize any of the landmarks. They do list them but they are not part of our constitution.
     
  13. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Thanks. That would meet my definition of recognition vice adoption
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  14. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    LOL... not sure we agree within the jurisdiction beside being told to preserve them.... GL might have issued a proclamation, but I doubt it because they are debated by GL members, if they'd been proclaimed, someone would have the list in his pocket (on his smart phone)...
     
  15. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    Coming from a totally different perspective I find the discussion about landmarks really interesting. In Sweden the landmarks are not mentioned at all. Some of them we have similarities to in our laws, and others are completely new to me.

    When did the landmarks started to become important in the US? Who were the authors and in what context were they written?
     
  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    If you don't mention landmarks, how can you argue about them?

    If you do an Internet search you can find articles.
     
  17. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    So the main purpose of the Landmarks is to have something to argue about? :)
     
  18. R. Jacques Johnson

    R. Jacques Johnson Registered User

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    Simon, you are hilarious. I wish you were in my lodge. We would have fun together. What jurisdiction are you from?
     
  19. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    Grand Lodge of Sweden. When I visit US I'd really like to visit a lodge and see how its done on your side of the atlantic!
     
  20. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This is my perception.
     

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