1. Brother Jordan Butler

    Brother Jordan Butler Registered User

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    Can a AF AM visit a prince hall lodge and vice versa can a prince hall mason visit a regular blue lodge? Is that against jurisdiction or Masonic rules?

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  2. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    When you say AF AM, are you referring to the Grand Lodge of Texas, AF&AM affiliated Lodges, or predominantly African American AF&AM, or "4 Letter" Lodges/Grand Lodges? There is a difference............please advise, and I can provide a clear explanation for whichever response is given...............Bro. Jones
     
  3. Brother Jordan Butler

    Brother Jordan Butler Registered User

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    Not the Texas grand lodge in particular but can any blue lodge Mason visit a prince hall lodge?

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  4. Brother Jordan Butler

    Brother Jordan Butler Registered User

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    Your explanation brother Jones is greatly appreciated

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  5. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    If we are talking about the two regular jurisdictions in Texas (GL of TX and MWPHGLoTX) then we don't currently share visitation. So the short answer would be no in my state. This is not the case everywhere. The majority of the states in the U.S share visitation between the GL of State and the MWPHGL of State. Many are pushing for that here in Texas as we speak. When it comes to the predominately African American "4 Letter" A.F & A.M GLs or any that have lineage to John G. Jones that are scattered around Texas, and in your case California, they can't visit ANY regular jurisdiction lawfully. PERIOD.
     
  6. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    Based on current Grand Lodge membership, you would not be able to visit any of the Prince Hall Grand Lodges or "Mainstream" Grand Lodges in any state in the U.S.
     
  7. Cblack

    Cblack Registered User

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    The designated use AF&AM is misleading by those GLs that are predominantly African American...Some tend to think that because the use the acronym then they are Regularly Constituted GLs or SR GLs. Both are false....When using this particular designation along with a GL, one has to have lineage to the Antients (Athols)...

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  8. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    Brother CBlack, you are correct about what SOME tend to think, by simply looking at the designation..........However, the designation isn't misleading among those who are familiar with the rift between the PHA Brethren, and the John G. Jones AF&AM Brethren.......It's something that Mainstream brothers really don't have to deal with, because the rift which divided your Lodges was solved in 1813 with the Antients and Moderns coming together under the UGLE........

    This particular deal is a rift that began over 140 years ago, in 1869, with the formation of said predominantly Black "AF&AM" Lodges and Grand Lodges by John G. Jones, a former 33rd Degree Prince Hall Mason and Attorney from Chicago, Illinois.....He began forming these "AF&AM" Lodges, without permission of the Mainstream Grand Lodge or Prince Hall Grand Lodge of the States in which they were formed. Hence, they were considered to be illegally formed, without proper lineage, and do not possess formal recognition by either of our GL bodies.

    I have posted quite a few responses in other threads with more detail about the History behind this, and also the way one will KNOW he is speaking with a Brother Mason of African American descent who is a member of a predominantly Black regular and AND recognized Lodge.............It's simple-----If the Lodge is F&AM, and falls under the Jurisdiction of a PRINCE HALL AFFILIATED GRAND LODGE (PHA) of any State, that Brother can visit ANY Regularly Constituted Mainstream or PHA Lodge in the Country where Intervisitation is permitted between the GL's...........

    The Nine States that don't permit visitation are in the South, and this is something that I think can and will be remedied in the near future...........Brother Butler, if YOU have joined a predominantly Black "AF&AM" Lodge/Grand Lodge, and the Men with whom you affiliate are GOOD MEN, and ALL that you seek is camaraderie, frequent fellowship, and the title of "Mason", then stay where you are.

    HOWEVER, If you desire the ability to travel in other States and visit Regular AND Recognized Masonic Lodges, Possess Proper Masonic Lineage, Formal Masonic Recognition from one of the two GL bodies recognized by UGLE, and Affiliation with a Lodge Charter that traces back to one of the two Grand Lodges in England, (prior to 1813 merger, or UGLE AFTER the merger) you need to petition and join a Lodge under the Jurisdiction of either a Prince Hall Affiliated (PHA) Grand Lodge, or one of the Mainstream GL's in your particular State.

    I asked in a previous response where you hailed from, Brother.........the conversation and our responses will be a lot less convaluded if we know from whence you hail. My District Brother Byron Upton gave you a very correct and concise response, which cut to the meat of the issue. I tried my best to give you meat with veggies for clarity. If there is any further inquiry, please advise...........I hope I was able to assist you with your question..................

    Bro. Vincent C. Jones, Sr., Lodge Chaplain, Bayou City Lodge #228
    Prince Hall Affiliation, Free and Accepted Masonry, Houston, Texas
    Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas
     
  9. Cblack

    Cblack Registered User

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    Bro Jones....excellent information....I always say if you are in fact comfortable with where you are then by all means stay there but if you want to receive all of the rights, lights, and benefits then that can only truly come from a Regular masonic jurisdiction...I actually need to come and visit your lodge. .I am in District 15A as well....

    PM Curtis Black...James E. Carter #157
    MWPHGLoTX and its Jurisdictions
     
  10. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    and you will be welcomed, my Brother..........contact our WM, Bro. William Ross, at defjamblaster@aol.com. I attend meetings when possible, with respect to my work and family obligations. Hope to meet you soon.........SMIB
     
  11. Cblack

    Cblack Registered User

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    As I the same...WM Ross and I are very good friends

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  12. Raymond Walters

    Raymond Walters Premium Member

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  13. AnthonyPomilia357

    AnthonyPomilia357 Registered User

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    Watch out for the clandestine "masons"! I was almost tricked into it!
    IF&AMM Inc. (International Free & Accepted Modern Masons Inc. & OES) is an example. It is a group that was created in 1950 by William V. Banks. This is not a regularly constituted lodge! We as F&AM do not recognize this group as a sovereign body! No cross visitation nor Masonic communication!

    Fellowcraft from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI
     
  14. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Bro Jordan,

    Unfortunately your GL "the most Worshipful Son's of Light Grand Lodge of A.F. A.M. of California" is clandestine. No matter the letters you can't visit. Your best option at this point is to petition for healing at a lodge that's a member of one of the two recognized GLs in California. At this point you're brother because all men are brothers and we don't need Masonry to teach us that. Not the status you probably wanted when you joined that lodge. Switch and be a Masonic brother!
     
  15. AnthonyPomilia357

    AnthonyPomilia357 Registered User

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    dfreybur, very well said. How did you find out that he was part of a clandestine lodge?

    Fellowcraft from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI
     
  16. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    It's fairly easy. There are only two regular jurisdictions operating in each state in the U.S. They will be called either the GL of (State) or the Most Worshipful Prince Hall GL of (State) (with exception to MS and FL MW Stringer GL and MW Union GL respectively)
     
  17. AnthonyPomilia357

    AnthonyPomilia357 Registered User

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    Well I understand that, but I didn't ever see that this gentleman said that he wasn't a part of those two GL's.

    Fellowcraft from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI
     
  18. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    Strict examination is something else.......... Seriously, his profile states where he is from.
     
  19. AnthonyPomilia357

    AnthonyPomilia357 Registered User

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    Oh wow, good observation. I did not know that you could edit such things on your profile. Mine says I'm a master mason and I do not know how to change it to FC.

    Fellowcraft from Metamora/Hadley Lodge No. 210 of the GL of MI
     
  20. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    You can not change it to FC, but you would simply select No.
     

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