OES Meaning

Discussion in 'Order of the Eastern Star' started by CLewey44, Nov 28, 2015.

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Was the OES more Christian related than you expected?

Poll closed Jan 27, 2016.
  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Does anyone have any ideas on how to get some younger members to join OES? Also, for an organization that allows all religions, OES doesn't really cater to other religions too well. Masonry seems much more flexible with that. Especially T.O. lodges.


    I get the Biblical stories and they are great but the overuse of the term "Christianity" doesn't speak to those that didn't grow up here in the U.S. as Christians. My wife who is from Turkey was recently initiated and so far hasn't liked what she has heard. I had explained OES is for all religions and that other than the Biblical heroine stories, there wouldn't be really any Christian references. She was totally open to that and liked the idea of stories of good character, no matter their origins, were good. Then more Christian references were given than I had (unknowingly) implied would be. I think she was expecting more spiritual references and teachings and reflection. She couldn't get over the drawn out ritual and walking etc. I did explain that if they change the ritual portion or remove it all together, then it just becomes a group of people meeting. That ritual is what makes it unique.


    I think her expectation was that there would be more spiritual guidance and activities. I don't know how to sell it to her and stay within boundaries of understanding she's not of Protestant, Catholic or even Jewish background.. She doesn't mind Christian people at all obviously and all of her friends are Christians but she personally is not of Christian background and has a hard time relating to the Order for that reason. She feels if she wanted to listen to Biblical stories, she'd just go to church.

    I could use some guidance on any books she could read that aren't just Biblical quotes or too many Christ references so she could better relate to it. Also, do any of the Chapters on here have a reflection or spiritual time such as in T.O. lodges? Other than the Biblical heroines, do any other states utilize other religions or at least use a more vague reference to religion? Does anyone feel that the use of Christianity compared to Masonry, is a bit of a fa├žade to simply make people/women more comfortable with joining? Was the original stories that of Greek goddesses or is that something not ever published by Dr. Morris?

    I know this is a lot but for any brother or sister that has good insight on this, please chime in! :)


    Thank you brothers and sisters!
     
    Emjaysmash likes this.
  2. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Did you join with your wife?

    OES ritual is all about Biblical stories.

    The examples of noble women in some of the degrees are, indeed, Christian. The name itself may be taken as Christian. The issue, as I understand it, is if the young lady is comfortable with these examples. In OK Masonic ritual we use OT scriptures. Thus, those who do not accept the OT as Holy Writ must be comfortable with those scriptures.

    The ritual language doesn't change in regular jurisdictions.

    If your wife (whom I suspect joined in part out of loyalty to you) doesn't wish to sit through these Biblical lessons over and over again, she is going to find this very tedious.
     
  3. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    What areOT scriptures?
     
  4. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    OT could mean Over the Top - but in this case refers to the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament.

    The use of the OT in Masonry seems to me to make it anything but universal.
     
  5. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Fair question. Old Testament.
     
  6. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Hmmm I've only ever seen OT used inn lodge. The 3 jurisdictions(2 mainstream q pha) ive sat in all use the same scriptures
     
  7. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Those are OT, Brother. Psalms, Amos...
     
  8. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    She joined out of curiosity and to give us both something to be involved in. She said she will go sometimes but we will see. I guess the reason I expected it to be more universal was because there are Masonic lodges in Turkey and other countries that aren't majority Christian. With that mindset, I assumed OES was the same. Again, the 5 Biblical noble women is great and fine as she agreed. Her and I believe you can definitely pull great moral stories from virtually any VSL but she expected a little more universalism since in Masonry no religion is better than the other as I explained to her. Therefore, that was her and I's expectation of OES since they only ask if you believe in the GAOTU.

    Thanks for your replies.
     
  9. drw72

    drw72 Premium Member

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    I am have not joined any appendant bodies yet but in Blue Lodge I have not seen or heard any 'New Testament' (Christian) verses used. Everything seems based on the 'Old Testament'. Just because something comes from the Bible does not make it Christian.

    The Old Testament (Hebrew Bible, Pentateuch, Torah) is common to the 'People of the Book' or all three major monotheistic religions...Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. From what I figure when Freemasonry originated the Big Three were the only religions they were part of, Eastern religions or philosophies were not mainstream in Europe.

    So, by using the Old Testament Freemasonry covered Jews, Christians, and Muslims thereby making it, universal.
     
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  10. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    While Masonry may be "universal," OES is an American creation and not recognized in many other jurisdictions.
     
  11. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    In order for OES to grow, it may need to become more "universal" and that way it doesn't fade away like many chapters are doing now and how other appendant bodies have in the past. Keep the Biblical stories for sure since that is what makes it what it is and they are good life lessons but take away the hymns and partial language. Maybe tighten up some of it to make it more serious as oppose to songs that children sing or symbols like race cars and space ships.

    I think most people still believe in a Supreme Being but maybe are a little less church-going than in the past. More young people are into spiritual things nowadays and are always in search for something new and exciting. It's just a thought because I see 80% or more of the members I've seen are all over 50 or 60 years old. As a matter of fact, a lot of church-goers are anti-Masonic therefore are scared of the 5-pointed star and so fourth. Not to mention all of the internet sites and movies calling Masonry satanic etc. In other words, for OES to regain popularity, it may need to modify it's approach and message.

    I enjoy OES and hope to keep going for a long time. I have been selected as Marshall and would love to improve my knowledge on it but I can't find a ton of books on the subject that are nothing more than ritual work or poems. Any suggestions are appreciated.
     
  12. JamestheJust

    JamestheJust Registered User

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    That may be a blessing in disguise. Masonry is burdened with perhaps 20 000 books based on moralizing, speculation and spurious histories, with very few having even slight content from the genuine secrets. Reading these fills up the time of the brethren to little value.

    In my experience, inner practices and study of the liberal arts and sciences with some reference to the ancient mysteries taught me more than I ever found in Masonic literature.
     
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  13. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    No doubt about that in Freemasonry, but specifically OES is really hard to find it seems.
     
  14. drw72

    drw72 Premium Member

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    I have read several books on, about, or concerning Freemasonry and they are all pretty much the same. What has taught me the most so far is like James said; experience, practices (ritual), liberal arts, religious studies (world religions not just my own). It is very exiting when one realizes how things can fit together and teach you something new.
     
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  15. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Thats y i said ive only ever...meaning its the only ones I've seen
     
  16. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Brother you say..in OK freemasonry...do you mean Oklahoma cause i thought you were from UTAH?
     
  17. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    I am an endowed member of Daylight 542 in Tulsa. I installed my father as Master of the lodge. I went to Tulsa Central and OU.

    I'm also a member in England, where I am a PM and PZ.
     
  18. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Sorry, completely misread it. Maybe the optometrist was right...
     
  19. MasonicAdept

    MasonicAdept Premium Member

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    Not necessarily.
    The OES can be traced to the older SUPREME CONSTELLATION that seems to have taken its roots in New York and Massachusetts.
    That body traces its origin to the Rite of Adoption in France. The OES can legitimately trace its origins to France.

    The Morris and MaCoy version of the OES, were actually deviations.

    If you go the Grand Chapter of New York (OES) website, you will see that their emblem is different than all of the other Grand Chapters in America, and they are not a part of the General Grand Chapter either...There is a reason for that.

    There are two streams of the OES in America.
     
  20. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    The Grand Chapter still claims Morris invented it and Macoy finalized it. Regardless, my main point was that not every jurisdiction recognizes OES, and some even forbid membership.
     

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