PHO vs PHA

Discussion in 'Prince Hall Freemasonry' started by TravelLight91, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. TravelLight91

    TravelLight91 Registered User

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    What is the difference between PHO and PHA? I am hearing that PHO is considered bogus and not legit masonry? Could someone explain more please?

    Thanks,

    Brother Caution.

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  2. Txmason

    Txmason Registered User

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    Prince Hall Masonry is (PHA) and there is also mainstream freemasonry but there is no PHO masonry that is bogus.

    Where do you live? in what city? I'd be glad to help you find a lodge to visit and learn about masonry. Are you interested in becoming a mason?


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  3. widows son

    widows son Premium Member

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    PHO is Prince Hall Origin.
     
  4. Txmason

    Txmason Registered User

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    Oh what's that?


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  5. Frater Cliff Porter

    Frater Cliff Porter Premium Member

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    PHA is recognized and mainstream. PHO is not.
     
  6. Txmason

    Txmason Registered User

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    Thank you bro. I learned something!


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  7. TravelLight91

    TravelLight91 Registered User

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    Yes, this confirms it for me. I have found many brothers not even knowing what PHO is.
     
  8. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    PHO is also referred to as "National Compact." Quite some time ago (mid 1800's IIRC,) some Prince Hall Lodges decided to have a national Grand Lodge. They apparently thought all Prince Hall Lodges would go along, but they didn't. So, it caused a schism. PHO has a national Grand Lodge (http://www.mwnationalgrandlodge.org/), PHA is organized with state Grand Lodges only. When "mainstream" state Grand Lodges started recognizing Prince Hall, they started recognizing PHA. I also think there a lot more PHA Lodges and brothers than PHO.
     
  9. towerbuilder7

    towerbuilder7 Moderator Premium Member

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    Brother mark r is correct-----pha (prince hall affiliation) is the preminent style of masonry of the two. We are considered regualr and recognized by the ugle here in texas, and pho (prince hall origin) is not..........i've heard rumors of "talks" of reconciliation between the two bodies, but none were verified.........bro jones
     
  10. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Bro Mark,

    Regularity comes in several levels and forms. It's a gray scale or floating point. In comparison recognition is yes/no digital. Being not recognized does *not* automatically mean being clandestine. This description makes PHO sound regular in almost every way but a decision on how many levels of sovereignty there should be. The divide between the Antients and Moderns was no larger than that and they unified into the UGLE in 1817.

    Might PHO reconcile at some point? In several countries there are both national and state GLs that get along and that could eventually happen in the US. If they have a definite lineage it's possible. If that's the only point of departure on regularity.
     
  11. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    You're absolutely correct (except UGLE formed in 1813.)
     
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  12. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    The PHO of yesterday is not the same one that operates today. The original was shut down and the one that operates now is doing so clandestinely. Everything from holding annual communication without quorum to self apoointed National Grand Masters.

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  13. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Bro Byron,

    Thanks for addressing my "If that's their only point of departure from regularity". Sounds like they have departed greatly from regularity at this point. Some clandestine group riding the tails of a now defunct almost-regular group.
     
  14. Cookboy4200

    Cookboy4200 Registered User

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    If they're not chartered I don't call them my Brother


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  15. lourocks

    lourocks Registered User

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    That's the way no charter no brother

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  16. tjmonty32

    tjmonty32 Registered User

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    PHO was never shut down. Read Out of the Shadows and The National Grandl Lodge, the untold truth by PHA writer Alton Roundtree. PHO IS LEGIT.

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  17. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    I beg to differ. The compact was abandoned.
     
  18. tjmonty32

    tjmonty32 Registered User

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    The compact has continued to meet since its formation in 1847, alist of its triennial sessions in listed on pages 787-788 in the book "Tha National Grand Lodge,The Untold Truth" by PHA writer Alton Roundtree

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  19. tjmonty32

    tjmonty32 Registered User

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  20. bupton52

    bupton52 Moderator Premium Member

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    Here is the cliff notes version:

    The National Grand Lodge (NGL) was meant to be like a COGM to stop clandestine freemasons and spread "negro" freemasonry. Once they started to try to exercise authority over GLs, those GLs started separating themselves (becoming independent like they are today) By the time the convention of 1878 came in Delaware, hardly anybody showed up. There wasn't enough representation to even open the session (quorum) Convention after that, same thing. GL's had pulled away and became independent, thus returning sovereignty to the State GL and not having a GM over state GMs like the NGL is set up. The NGL even started putting replacement GLs in some of the states where the existing regular PHGLs are today! The structure of the NGL/PHO is irregular. The fact that they continued to operate after dying is clandestine. Also the fact the National Grand Master (NGM) put out Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) that include goals to "Establish recognition with Modern Free Masons, Scottish Rite Masons and International Masons." ,which are known clandestine organizations, makes it even less likely that the NGL/PHO will ever be considered a regular organization or recognized by the rest of the masonic community.
     
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