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PHO vs PHA

leevesterclay

Registered User
PHO is also referred to as "National Compact." Quite some time ago (mid 1800's IIRC,) some Prince Hall Lodges decided to have a national Grand Lodge. They apparently thought all Prince Hall Lodges would go along, but they didn't. So, it caused a schism. PHO has a national Grand Lodge (http://www.mwnationalgrandlodge.org/), PHA is organized with state Grand Lodges only. When "mainstream" state Grand Lodges started recognizing Prince Hall, they started recognizing PHA. I also think there a lot more PHA Lodges and brothers than PHO.
The National Grand Lodge was established on June 24, 1847 in Boston, Massachusetts:

By the power and authority of the National Grand Lodge invested, grand lodges and subordinate lodges were constituted by warrant in the following States: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Massachusetts, Grand Lodge of New York, Grand Lodge of New Jersey, Grand Lodge of Maryland, Grand Lodge of Ohio, Grand Lodge of Indiana, Grand Lodge of Michigan, Grand Lodge of Illinois, Grand Lodge of Kentucky, Grand Lodge of Nebraska, Grand Lodge of Colorado and Wyoming, Territory Grand Lodge of California, Grand Lodge of Arkansas, Grand Lodge of Virginia, Grand Lodge of Tennessee, Grand Lodge of Mississippi, Grand Lodge of Texas, Grand Lodge of Georgia, Grand Lodge of Louisiana, Grand Lodge of North Carolina, Grand Lodge of South Carolina, Grand Lodge of Florida.

LEGITIMATE AND LEGAL NEGRO MASONS: From African Lodge #459, Boston, Massachusetts other Lodges were formed until there were enough Lodges to form a Grand Lodge in this State. Pennsylvania and New York also set up Lodges in their states. In 1847 the various grand lodges elected delegates and sent them to Boston for the purpose of organizing a National Grand Lodge under a National Compact and an Agreement of Sentiments. The National Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient York Masons (Colored) for the United States of America was constituted. All of the Lodges surrendered their warrants and were IN FACT re-warranted by the National Grand Lodge under the first National Grand Master, John T. Hilton. A National Constitution and by-laws were drawn up to govern this body of colored York Rite Masons. Thus, to be a LEGITIMATE and LEGALLY constituted body of Colored Masons, the Masonic Body must be FREE AND ACCEPTED ANCIENT YORK RITE, PRINCE HALL ORIGIN NATIONAL COMPACT.

PRINCE HALL ORIGIN: The name Prince Hall being associated with a Grand Lodge resulted from a Grand Warrant issued by the National Masons (Colored), to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge in Boston, Mass. in 1848; one year after the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient York Masons (Colored), to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge in Boston, Mass. It was on April 28, 1848 that the National Grand Lodge presented the Old African Grand Lodge of Boston a new State warrant under the name Prince Hall Grand Lodge. In most of the early States the warrants and charters for constituting a Grand Lodge were granted by the National Grand Lodge. From 1848 to 1888 the National Grand Lodge issued nearly all of the Warrants and Charters for Grand Lodges. Around 1863 there came dissension and disagreement among the members of the National Grand Lodge and some of the delegates walked out. From the group that left the National Grand Lodge, charters were secured by them to practice masonry under the sanction of the State. This group later took the name Prince Hall Masons, who are often referred to as “State Rite” Masons.

COLORED YORK RITE: The word “York” used in connection with Colored Masonry frequently raises a question in the minds of some and is challenged by others. Ancient York Masonry is the oldest and the mother of all Masonry. Its origin dates back 4000 years before Christ to the time of Noah and the Flood. York Masonry was the mother of all National Grand Lodges. If the Grand Lodge of England could organize a constitutional body then the organization of a National Grand Lodge under Grand Master John T. Hilton was no new innovation; nor did it violate any of the Ancient Land Marks of Freemasonry.

NATIONAL COMPACT: Some critics of Colored York Masonry attack the word “Compact” used in connection with our title. They say the word compact has no relation whatsoever with Masonry. To those who make such a charge, let it be made clear that “Compact” in our Masonic title stands in same relation as the word “Affiliation” or “Auxiliary” in others. God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost formed a Compact in the creation of the world. Throughout the Biblical Scripture references are made to Men dwelling in UNITY and joined together in a Compact Body that they might do the work of their Father in Heaven. In the true tradition of York Masons, the only Christian route of masonry, following the Principles and Practices of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a “COMPACT” of AGREEMENTS and SENTIMENTS.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
You forgot to finish the history with the dissolution of the NGL:

The National Grand Lodge was established on June 24, 1847 in Boston, Massachusetts:

By the power and authority of the National Grand Lodge invested, grand lodges and subordinate lodges were constituted by warrant in the following States: Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Massachusetts, Grand Lodge of New York, Grand Lodge of New Jersey, Grand Lodge of Maryland, Grand Lodge of Ohio, Grand Lodge of Indiana, Grand Lodge of Michigan, Grand Lodge of Illinois, Grand Lodge of Kentucky, Grand Lodge of Nebraska, Grand Lodge of Colorado and Wyoming, Territory Grand Lodge of California, Grand Lodge of Arkansas, Grand Lodge of Virginia, Grand Lodge of Tennessee, Grand Lodge of Mississippi, Grand Lodge of Texas, Grand Lodge of Georgia, Grand Lodge of Louisiana, Grand Lodge of North Carolina, Grand Lodge of South Carolina, Grand Lodge of Florida.

LEGITIMATE AND LEGAL NEGRO MASONS: From African Lodge #459, Boston, Massachusetts other Lodges were formed until there were enough Lodges to form a Grand Lodge in this State. Pennsylvania and New York also set up Lodges in their states. In 1847 the various grand lodges elected delegates and sent them to Boston for the purpose of organizing a National Grand Lodge under a National Compact and an Agreement of Sentiments. The National Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient York Masons (Colored) for the United States of America was constituted. All of the Lodges surrendered their warrants and were IN FACT re-warranted by the National Grand Lodge under the first National Grand Master, John T. Hilton. A National Constitution and by-laws were drawn up to govern this body of colored York Rite Masons. Thus, to be a LEGITIMATE and LEGALLY constituted body of Colored Masons, the Masonic Body must be FREE AND ACCEPTED ANCIENT YORK RITE, PRINCE HALL ORIGIN NATIONAL COMPACT.

PRINCE HALL ORIGIN: The name Prince Hall being associated with a Grand Lodge resulted from a Grand Warrant issued by the National Masons (Colored), to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge in Boston, Mass. in 1848; one year after the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Ancient York Masons (Colored), to the Prince Hall Grand Lodge in Boston, Mass. It was on April 28, 1848 that the National Grand Lodge presented the Old African Grand Lodge of Boston a new State warrant under the name Prince Hall Grand Lodge. In most of the early States the warrants and charters for constituting a Grand Lodge were granted by the National Grand Lodge. From 1848 to 1888 the National Grand Lodge issued nearly all of the Warrants and Charters for Grand Lodges. Around 1863 there came dissension and disagreement among the members of the National Grand Lodge and some of the delegates walked out. From the group that left the National Grand Lodge, charters were secured by them to practice masonry under the sanction of the State. This group later took the name Prince Hall Masons, who are often referred to as “State Rite” Masons.

COLORED YORK RITE: The word “York” used in connection with Colored Masonry frequently raises a question in the minds of some and is challenged by others. Ancient York Masonry is the oldest and the mother of all Masonry. Its origin dates back 4000 years before Christ to the time of Noah and the Flood. York Masonry was the mother of all National Grand Lodges. If the Grand Lodge of England could organize a constitutional body then the organization of a National Grand Lodge under Grand Master John T. Hilton was no new innovation; nor did it violate any of the Ancient Land Marks of Freemasonry.

NATIONAL COMPACT: Some critics of Colored York Masonry attack the word “Compact” used in connection with our title. They say the word compact has no relation whatsoever with Masonry. To those who make such a charge, let it be made clear that “Compact” in our Masonic title stands in same relation as the word “Affiliation” or “Auxiliary” in others. God the Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost formed a Compact in the creation of the world. Throughout the Biblical Scripture references are made to Men dwelling in UNITY and joined together in a Compact Body that they might do the work of their Father in Heaven. In the true tradition of York Masons, the only Christian route of masonry, following the Principles and Practices of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, a “COMPACT” of AGREEMENTS and SENTIMENTS.
 

leevesterclay

Registered User
What is the difference between PHO and PHA? I am hearing that PHO is considered bogus and not legit masonry? Could someone explain more please?

Thanks,

Brother Caution.

Freemason Connect Mobile

NGL still exists. Got it. PHO shares a legitimate Masonic history with PHA. Got it. At some point, there was a schism that placed the authority claimed by NGL beyond the bounds of regular Freemasonry. Got it. Therefore, despite its historical origins, the contemporary NGL is irregular.

Someone please close this thread.


My Freemasonry HD
if I paid you money would you recognized me
 

MarkR

Premium Member
if I paid you money would you recognized me
First of all, that's a very cynical question, and implies that we're corrupt. Secondly, recognition is not up to the individual Mason. My Grand Lodge does not recognize your Grand Lodge (assuming you're PHO) and therefore the question is settled for me.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
The National Grand Lodge was established on June 24, 1847 in Boston, Massachusetts:
...

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Bloke

Premium Member
You forgot to finish the history with the dissolution of the NGL:

Thank you Brother - it is great to have your knowledgeable contributions here.
 

leevesterclay

Registered User
Greetings to the group and Peace and Blessings to you all. PHO is Not regular because they do not have the same origins as PHA. Will you care to elaborate as well as illustrate this point.
I have am somewhat conversant with the National Compact history. PHO is not considered regular by CGMNA and this is the first time I’ve heard a PHA Grand Lodge indicate otherwise.

I don’t wish to disturb the harmony of the list, and so will invite you to discuss the issue at the rather harshly named FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/267483426933994/
I have a two question from my research (please educate me) first question did National Grand Master, John T. Hilton close African Lodge #459 if he did why? 2nd question The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Massachusetts was established by the National Grand Lodge in April 1848 under John T. Hilton who served as the First National Grand Master
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
I have a two question from my research (please educate me) first question did National Grand Master, John T. Hilton close African Lodge #459 if he did why? 2nd question The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Massachusetts was established by the National Grand Lodge in April 1848 under John T. Hilton who served as the First National Grand Master
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Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Off topic. i would refer you to the Exposing Clandestine Freemasons FB group.
I have a two question from my research (please educate me) first question did National Grand Master, John T. Hilton close African Lodge #459 if he did why? 2nd question The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Massachusetts was established by the National Grand Lodge in April 1848 under John T. Hilton who served as the First National Grand Mas
 

Papeek23

Registered User
Just to reply I know I miss allot I've been deployed but from my understanding PHA is Prince Hall Affiliated so the question is what are you guys affiliated with why PHA instead of PHM so really PHO is legit because PHA is Affiliated with PHO and technically speaking you guys can't get anything but two or three degrees and you have to go Yorkrite then from there you have to go Scottishrite for royal archs knights templar then become full members of AF to get 32 and 33 and that is a shame some of your instructors are not teaching or instructing you guys correctly on your Freemasonry history from slavery from when Prince Hall stole some Yorkrite info to create his own thing for us blacks to have what whites wouldn't allow us to have back in the days so if you gonna teach please tell the whole stole i mean from slavery years also teach how prince hall members can only get three degrees
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Just to reply I know I miss allot I've been deployed but from my understanding PHA is Prince Hall Affiliated so the question is what are you guys affiliated with why PHA instead of PHM so really PHO is legit because PHA is Affiliated with PHO and technically speaking you guys can't get anything but two or three degrees and you have to go Yorkrite then from there you have to go Scottishrite for royal archs knights templar then become full members of AF to get 32 and 33 and that is a shame some of your instructors are not teaching or instructing you guys correctly on your Freemasonry history from slavery from when Prince Hall stole some Yorkrite info to create his own thing for us blacks to have what whites wouldn't allow us to have back in the days so if you gonna teach please tell the whole stole i mean from slavery years also teach how prince hall members can only get three degrees
As a infrequent poster, I introduce you to what we call, "civil punctuation."

It requires suitable use of . , ! ? : ; & ".

Should you want to be taken seriously, it is recommended that you use these symbols as needed and where appropriate.

As things are now, I shall forgo reading your post until...

Welcome Back!
 
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Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
Just to reply I know I miss allot I've been deployed but from my understanding PHA is Prince Hall Affiliated so the question is what are you guys affiliated with why PHA instead of PHM so really PHO is legit because PHA is Affiliated with PHO and technically speaking you guys can't get anything but two or three degrees and you have to go Yorkrite then from there you have to go Scottishrite for royal archs knights templar then become full members of AF to get 32 and 33 and that is a shame some of your instructors are not teaching or instructing you guys correctly on your Freemasonry history from slavery from when Prince Hall stole some Yorkrite info to create his own thing for us blacks to have what whites wouldn't allow us to have back in the days so if you gonna teach please tell the whole stole i mean from slavery years also teach how prince hall members can only get three degrees
I’m not entirely sure what you are saying. As indicated, punctuation is our friend.

PHO is not regular.

PHA is regular.

Royal Arch and KT are received under the York Rite, not under AASR.

Yes, 32 and 33 are received in AASR. PHA has AASR. Their SGC just attended the biennial of the Mother a supreme Council.

PHA have York Rite and AASR. I have attended the PHA KYCH Convent General and invested the GMG with the Grand Cross.

Prince Hall received a warrant from the Grand Lodge of England, so he didn't steal those degrees.

He was not a slave.

He created no York Rite. He was dead before such a rite was created.
 
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