My Freemasonry | Freemason Information and Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Question:

MasonicAdept

Premium Member
No matter the details of the back story, the charter from the Premier Grand Lodge of England establishes the Brothers of African Lodge 459 as regular. We don't necessarily know if getting that charter counted as healing for some or all of them but having that charter settled the matter. As I've been reading the discussion I've been thinking of all the parts of the story and that's the piece that fell into place for me. Charter equals regular. Name on a charter equals acceptance. History before that goes form crucial to interesting, even fascinating. History before that is history.

It was racism that kept 459 from being accepted into the forming GLs of New England. It is still racism that keeps recognition from happening in both directions in many states. I accept that once 459 was large enough to hive other lodges it was time for them to do that and once there were at least 3 it was time to organize their own jurisdiction. Not the usual process but it's the only choice they had at the time. It took until the 1980s for that process to be retroactively declared regular. So here too history goes from crucial to interesting, even fascinating. History before that is history.

I'm a history buff so I love history. Reading through this discussion it took a while for me to realize that two transitions are involved - Regularity guaranteed at the point of receiving a charter. Regularity guaranteed at the point of receiving recognition.

Great Observations Bro. @dfreybur:

In the preface of my book I explain that the book doesn't deal with any period in African Lodge's formative years but the years 1778-1784.
Many of the PHA hardliners want a pristine history clear of any irregularities. Even the sympathizers will attempt to "cover" the irregularities as well. The facts are the facts, and it is better to have the entire history put on the table and addressed, than to have to sit through another century acting as if these findings weren't there and failed to be addressed by past historians.

Thank you for your honesty.
 

chrmc

Registered User
any of the PHA hardliners want a pristine history clear of any irregularities. Even the sympathizers will attempt to "cover" the irregularities as well. The facts are the facts, and it is better to have the entire history put on the table and addressed, than to have to sit through another century acting as if these findings weren't there and failed to be addressed by past historians.

Not to derail the discussion, but have you felt push back from the PHA community about getting the true historical facts out there? As you allude to I could imagine that many people would not be interested in exposing the irregularities further, though they will be inconsequential these days.
Or has this book and historical reinterpretation largely been accepted positively by the PHA community?
 

Bloke

Premium Member
No matter the details of the back story, the charter from the Premier Grand Lodge of England establishes the Brothers of African Lodge 459 as regular. We don't necessarily know if getting that charter counted as healing for some or all of them but having that charter settled the matter. As I've been reading the discussion I've been thinking of all the parts of the story and that's the piece that fell into place for me. Charter equals regular. Name on a charter equals acceptance. History before that goes form crucial to interesting, even fascinating. History before that is history.

It was racism that kept 459 from being accepted into the forming GLs of New England. It is still racism that keeps recognition from happening in both directions in many states. I accept that once 459 was large enough to hive other lodges it was time for them to do that and once there were at least 3 it was time to organize their own jurisdiction. Not the usual process but it's the only choice they had at the time. It took until the 1980s for that process to be retroactively declared regular. So here too history goes from crucial to interesting, even fascinating. History before that is history.

I'm a history buff so I love history. Reading through this discussion it took a while for me to realize that two transitions are involved - Regularity guaranteed at the point of receiving a charter. Regularity guaranteed at the point of receiving recognition.

It's an intersting discussion! Masonic Adept is passionate enough about it to publish, and i'm just curious. I too love history, and as i said somewhere, it will be intersting how MAdept's book is regarded in the furture, as a bleep, or the moment an axiom was proved false; always interesting in itself. I did that recently with a well known masonic artifact....

Most students of history will "know" how Prince Hall was initiated into an Irish Lodge with a traveling warrant: that story might become like the Ramsey Address.

This thread got me reading on Prince Hall contemporary Freemasonry in India in the 1700's.... because i know "regularity" and warrants were not used or considered in the same way in the 1700's as today. (Even in ww2 POW camps they "worked degrees" - although I'm not sure that's means the initiated men.) And i was interested how Indians were treated ( you know the British initiated native american leaders (in Canada?) prior to the war if independance , yes?) at the same time: there would be some similarities between India and Boston at that time, albeit putting the EIC aside...

India is interesting, because the same GLs were involved and the first Indian initiated was apparently

"The first Indian Mason was Omdat-ul-Omrah, Nawab Carnatic initiated in 1775" but the doors got slammed until the 1800's.... it's a common theme, Freemasonry is colour blind and accepting of other religions until, from stage right, the freemason pharisees enter

( btw http://www.masonindia.in/index.php/faqs-on-indian-freemasonry/ )

I've tried to find early Australian Aboriginal initiations, tricky because they took or were given basically western names, but i can't find them.... nothing until the 20th century, but I'll keep looking...
 

MasonicAdept

Premium Member
It's an intersting discussion! Masonic Adept is passionate enough about it to publish, and i'm just curious. I too love history, and as i said somewhere, it will be intersting how MAdept's book is regarded in the furture, as a bleep, or the moment an axiom was proved false; always interesting in itself. I did that recently with a well known masonic artifact....

Most students of history will "know" how Prince Hall was initiated into an Irish Lodge with a traveling warrant: that story might become like the Ramsey Address.

This thread got me reading on Prince Hall contemporary Freemasonry in India in the 1700's.... because i know "regularity" and warrants were not used or considered in the same way in the 1700's as today. (Even in ww2 POW camps they "worked degrees" - although I'm not sure that's means the initiated men.) And i was interested how Indians were treated ( you know the British initiated native american leaders (in Canada?) prior to the war if independance , yes?) at the same time: there would be some similarities between India and Boston at that time, albeit putting the EIC aside...

India is interesting, because the same GLs were involved and the first Indian initiated was apparently

"The first Indian Mason was Omdat-ul-Omrah, Nawab Carnatic initiated in 1775" but the doors got slammed until the 1800's.... it's a common theme, Freemasonry is colour blind and accepting of other religions until, from stage right, the freemason pharisees enter

( btw http://www.masonindia.in/index.php/faqs-on-indian-freemasonry/ )

I've tried to find early Australian Aboriginal initiations, tricky because they took or were given basically western names, but i can't find them.... nothing until the 20th century, but I'll keep looking...

Good Stuff there...
 
Top