Rosicrucian?

Discussion in 'Philosophy, Religion and Spirituality' started by rhitland, Jun 24, 2009.

  1. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Have you ever heard of this order and would you ever join?
    They have similiarties to Masonry but yet much much diffrent, I was first turned onto the order when I found out Ben Franklin was one whom I idiolize and then after researching it more and more I find myself drawn to it, but wanted to see what you Brothers knew or thought about it?


    http://www.rosicrucian.org/
    they website is very well done.
     
  2. cambridgemason

    cambridgemason Premium Member Premium Member

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    heard of them, read very little on them, and there is a what they call a Lodge over in Boston, Massachusetts. All I know.
     
  3. tomasball

    tomasball Premium Member

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    Could you offer some documentary evidence that Benjamin Franklin was a member of AMORC?

    T. Ball
    San Juan 1173
     
  4. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Below is a brief explanation on how it is known Ben Franklin was a Rosicrucian along with a link to the Rosicrucian's offical website and their claim to his membership.

    http://www.rosicrucian.org/about/mastery/mastery08history.html

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/2216/Ephrata_Presentation/56_Ephrata.htm

    Benjamin Franklin was born in Boston
    [1706-1790] We all have wondered how it is known that Benjamin Franklin [1706-1790] was a Rosicrucian. Well, it is partly by reading what he wrote—through his writing, we can recognize his Rosicrucianism. However, Manly P. Hall wrote that Franklin's signature appears on the ledger—above that of Marquis de Lafayette, he pointed out—at the Lodge of Perfection in France. That Lodge is considered to have been "the greatest of all French lodges" as Hall wrote it. In The Secret Destiny of America, he said of Franklin in America:
    "Franklin spoke for the Order of the Quest, and most of the men who worked with him in the early days of the American Revolution were also members. The plan was working out, the New Atlantis was coming into being, in accordance with the program laid down by Francis Bacon a hundred and fifty years earlier.
    "The rise of American democracy was necessary to a world program. At the appointed hour, the freedom of man was publicly declared."

    Imperator Gary L. Stewart, in 1984, stated that it is known that both Rosicrucians and Martinists attended that French Lodge of Perfection. The Order of the Quest is another of different spiritual Orders tied with the Rosicrucian movement of initiatic individuals, that functioned generally in connection with the western esoteric tradition. It was sometimes referred to as the western mystery tradition. Brethren of the Rosicrucians were usually members of more than one secret society. Chapters of Perfection included leaders from religions and scientific organizations, as well as esoteric and humanitarian orders.
     
  5. gortex6

    gortex6 Guest

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  6. gortex6

    gortex6 Guest

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    Mail order enlightenment
     
  7. tomasball

    tomasball Premium Member

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    In other words, it's fun to imagine that Benjamin Franklin was a Rosicrucian, just like it's fun to imagine Da Vinci was, but unlike his membership in Masonry, there's no documentary evidence.

     
  8. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    I was not trying to convince you, I was merly sharing info I have found and yeah it is fun and spiritual so why would you try and rob that of someone when you do not know if he was or was not for sure either?
     
  9. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Brother tomasball I am very intrested in seeing the documentation that proves Brother Ben Franklin was not a Rosicrucian.
     
  10. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    Mail Order Enlightenment...

    Brother rhitland, not to be contrarian, but wouldn’t it be wise to use the scientific proof positive approach?
    Not using this type of analysis is what starts fables such as Thomas Jefferson being declared a Mason, when in fact, there is no proof that he was and therefore it is a false claim.

    Here is a reinforced myth; Thomas Jefferson was supposed to be a Rosicrucian but according to my research (at the time) one had to be a Mason in order to be a Rosicrucian, and he was not. So how does that work?

    There is a lot of romanticism, some true, some wishful thinking. This sounds like an interesting project, but be warned some of these myths have been already debunked. :eek:
     
  11. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Ben Franklin's membership in the rosicrucians does have a shroud of dought in that the Martinist met at the Lodge of Perfection on occasion also but seeing that his way of life and believes did not line up with the Martinists as well as the teaching of Rosicrucianism it is believed by almost all scholars he was there for a Rosicrucian meeting which is what normaly took place in that lodge. I myself am merley agreeing with the findings of the majority who have researched the subject more thurley. I would not ask anyone to believe it on my say so.
    Alot of things we are told as facts are merley based on context clues of history and writtings of the most powerful at the time and we are left to believe them as false or true with sometime no physical evidence at all such as the Temple of Solomon.
    Well we have really wonder from my intention on the thread but it has turned into a great conversation non the less thanks for all the input and keep it coming.
     
  12. tomasball

    tomasball Premium Member

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    Are we talking about the Lodge of Perfection in Bordeaux, that gave Stephen Morin the patent he used to propagate the forerunner of the Scottish Rite?

    Is there any source for Franklin attending this lodge other than Manly Hall? I have noticed that a lot of his "research" comes from divine revelations.
     
  13. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Could not find anything that said Lodge of Perfection in Bordeaux it only refrenced it as being in France no specific town or village I could find but I did not spend nearly enough time looking so I will check into that more in my free time.

    I am not sure what else could be discovedred from a secrect meeting, I always thought Brother Hall was lucky to even find the sign in sheet but I do not believe this alone is proof as the sheet has no refrence to the actual purpose of the gathering we are just left to reason. Looking into this the last couple of days I found quite a few books making refrence to Ben Franklin being a Rosicrucian but as there was no better explanation than what I offered earlier I will leave this one at "Divine revelation".

    It has been awhile since I read up on Franklin and I forgot how much he inspires me that man was something else, thanks for the nudge Brother tomasball.
     
  14. Traveling Man

    Traveling Man Premium Member

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    Les Neuf SÅ“urs

    Source Wiki Encyclopaedia: Benjamin Franklin

    Les Neuf Sœurs (The Lodge of Nine Sisters (or Muses))

    Note: French Grand Orient de France(FWIW)

    In 1778, the year Voltaire became an honorary member, Benjamin Franklin and John Paul Jones also were accepted. Benjamin Franklin became Master of the Lodge in 1779, and was re-elected in 1780. When Franklin, after a long and influential stay in Europe, returned to America to participate in the writing of the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson took over as American Envoy.

    Source: Masonic Dictionary indicates his Masonic initiation as:

    1730-1, February, initiated in Saint John's Lodge, Philadelphia.

    However as the above date time line “may” suggest he may have been present at one of Cagliostros presentations of “Egyptian Freemasonry” (an adoptive rite) which some have conveniently interpreted as Rosicrucian. Which of course claims “antiquity” as in “time in memorial” and so on…

    After reading about AMORC rituals and Joseph Smith and Cagliostros Egyptian Rite (and some of the American York Rite) they appear all the same. Coincidence? I don’t think so… But hey that’s just me. VBG
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  15. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    I believe you are wrong on this one. It is not mail order enlightenment, AMORC has lodges and they do work in those lodges. There is one here in San Antonio.
     
  16. A7V

    A7V Registered User

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    Wow, anything else is a hoax and a ripoff? Where do you get this from? Is it because they are not tied to Freemasonry you think this?

    It is true that the SRIA and MSRICF are older than the AMORC but neither can truly trace itself back to 1614 just like no current Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn can trace itself back to what Mathers, Westcott and Woodman founded without argument.

    It can be argued that AMORC can trace its lineage to a working lodge of Rosicrucians in France when Lewis was initiated in 1909, while SRIA was founded in 1867 in Scotland and bases its claim to lineage from the original German texts. Anyone can do that. The work that SRIA did was created just like the work of AMORC from a multitude of places.

    Okay, I will stop ranting, but I hope you can see how claiming a true lineage and dismissing others on matters esoteric is like pissing in the wind, it can blow back on you!

    Your claim that these other organizations are hoax's and ripoffs is basically just puffing up your chest and pretending to be important because you are a member of this organization and not that one.

    I hate to tell you this but no one organization has a monopoly on enlightenment or wisdom.
     
  17. TCShelton

    TCShelton Founding Member Premium Member

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    +1.
     
  18. ftwthFATS

    ftwthFATS Guest

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    none of them were members. its all a fairy tale
     
  19. rhitland

    rhitland Founding Member Premium Member

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    Fairy Tale?, never thought of it that way. That suits me just fine fairy tale it is.
     
  20. Griffin

    Griffin Brother of the R+C Premium Member

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    Chaz likes this.

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